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Originally Posted by christianm77
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05-15-2015 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by christianm77
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Originally Posted by christianm77
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Originally Posted by gggomez
Anyway, I immediately ordered both albums. Thanks again!
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Mebee Charlie Byrd?
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Originally Posted by christianm77
If you're referring to players who are trying to sound like the year is still 1950 than thats a different subject. The recordings are all there though so I don't know why anyone would have a disadvantage. Put in the work and you'll get the results.
I also don't think sounding like a tribute act from the past is going to revive jazz. If anything it's the contemporary players who are not afraid to embrace new sounds and styles that are keeping jazz even remotely relevant in a popular culture sense.
Mehldau is one of the most successful of the contemporary players. Anyone paying attention to his trio and solo work will note he has traditional sensibilities to burn but also embraces covering non-traditional tunes and taking old standards into new realms.
Last edited by Jazzpunk; 05-17-2015 at 04:08 PM.
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Originally Posted by Jazzpunk
As feel is generally learned experientially, and available experience is lacking for many young players, so the perspective shifts to how well you can synchronise to a metronome. Two different things.
But the interpretation of what swings and what doesn't swing is completely subjective, so there's actually little point in debating it.
Second: I very carefully worded my post (hence the edits!). Read it again, and you will see that I am not disagreeing with your statement. You are in fact, agreeing with me.
You mention international class players who have played with the greatest musicians of their generation (especially in the case of Rogers), which is a bit different. Having heard Kreisberg and Adam Rogers perform, it's hard to know whether I would have dug a performance by some dead giant (Wes etc) and obviously a slightly silly question to ask.
I do feel Wes's records *swing* more than theirs, which is certainly not an insult. I find a different quality in that older jazz music. It's more earthy.
That said, I really like Chris Potter's underground (the band I saw Adam with) because it has a bit of that visceral sort of feeling to it using modern feels and grooves. I also really enjoy the Larry Golding trio (a bit more swing, I guess). In my experience so far, it doesn't get much better than that. I think that sort of music I could invite anyone to, which covers the original topic rather nicely.
And I love Brad Meldhau (never seen him live, soon!) It's a beautiful, classical type of modern jazz, to me...
In any case, self flagellation due to not sounding like Charlie Christian is something I am keen to avoid. ;-)Last edited by christianm77; 05-17-2015 at 04:48 PM.
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Originally Posted by christianm77
Hope you get to see Mehldau soon! I was fortunate enough to get to see him around L.A. in very intimate venues (20-30 people) years ago before he became an international figure. I never miss a show when he is back in town.Last edited by Jazzpunk; 05-18-2015 at 12:34 AM.
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I suppose if there is a bone of contention it's this.
We seem to agree here that contemporary jazz doesn't really swing like the old stuff (Blue Note etc) and has a different vibe. So, if you forgive the bluntness - does contemporary jazz not swing like Wes because:
a) modern players can swing like Wes but have 'evolved beyond it'
b) modern players realise that while they will never swing like Wes etc, the world has moved on and while we can respect the past we can do something relevant to now.
I am a big fan of b). a) seem a bit obnoxious to me (and I haven't head much evidence TBH).
Music to me is not a linear progression. It doesn't go Eddie Lang>Charlie Christian>Wes Montgomery>Pat Metheny>Kurt Rosenwinkel, and I don't really think anyone here would seriously suggest it. It's just that the progression narrative kind of seeps in and it bugs me.
It also implies that you have to master everything that came before. You can't, of course, and you could go mad trying.
You can take the grand tour, of course, and specialise in one way or another... Obviously I have passed over the more 'old school' practitioners, Russell Malone, Howard Alden etc...
Anyway, rant mode disengaged....Last edited by christianm77; 05-17-2015 at 05:03 PM.
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Originally Posted by christianm77
By current do you mean folks who came to prominence after 2000? Not too familiar with that crop. George Benson swings as hard as anyone has ever swung on the guitar. A lot of the guys he inspired like Perry Hughes, Henry Johnson, Bobby Broom, etc. swing hard.
Peter Bernstein swings to my ears, although it's not a hard swing.
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Originally Posted by ecj
I think he is a true jazz guitarist's jazz guitarist, and I really dig it - but I understand why a lot of general music fans complain that his music is metronomic and relentless....
There is the George Benson lineage. I have to confess I've not listened to those players much - I will definitely check them out. Benson of course is one of the most musical people every to walk the earth. I'm not a huge fan of all he does, but he's just so stupidly talented.
But I do mean people after 2000. Everything seems to be in this deep music college cerebral harmony and odd time thing ATM. Is it just the view from my little patch?Last edited by christianm77; 05-17-2015 at 05:13 PM.
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Originally Posted by christianm77
Easier for a moderately good jazz musician from the 30's to get a vibe happening with an audience from that period, than an otherwise quite decent 26 year old somewhat struggling with attempting to be the next Mehldau/whoever these days. That stuff is hard to pull off in a way that connects with the listener - real master level gear.
I find most of the Mehliana stuff I've heard a bit cluttered for my taste, but points to Mehldau for stretching out and trying something new. Plenty of folks dig it no doubt.
Jazzpunk - funny you mentioned Kreisberg and Rogers, because amongst the contemporary guys, I think they have the best time going. Both those guys have great feel and are right in the pocket.
As guitarists we're lucky to have Julian Lage - he represents a whole new direction to go in, that references the past in a balanced way while being innovative and cutting edge as well. Anything he does is incredible (except the Nels Cline stuff, lol... don't flame me).Last edited by 3625; 05-17-2015 at 07:56 PM.
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Found it. Early Mehldau trio: London Blues
******* amazing gear! It's got that vibe of truly great jazz, such as Coltrane, Bird, etc.
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George Benson, Joe Pass with Ella Fitzgerald, John Pizarelli, basically anyone you can find that sings or plays with a singer, most non musicians need a singer....
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It's not the guitarist, it's the songs. You get some guy wailing away on some hard bop workout, and most people will tune out after 3 seconds.
A few guitarists who play "jazz" (as opposed to jazz guitarists who do pop music like Benson) and seem to pick good tunes would be (IMHO)
-Wes Montgomery
-Gabor Szabo
-Charlie Byrd
-Martin Taylor
-Johnny Smith
-Joe Pass
-Peter Bernstein
-Baden Powell
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if us jazzers are not normal what are we? And are those that listen to classical, country, heavy metal, and other genres asking the same thing regarding guitarsis that play their style of music? Just wondering.
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Originally Posted by snoskier63
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