-
Originally Posted by fep
-
07-04-2014 01:23 PM
-
Originally Posted by fep
lololol . . . that was way cool. Thanks Frank! And, just imagine . . he wasn't even employing "The Benson" method!!
I wonder if his left hand would be able to keep up with his right hand if he was trying to play different notes and from string to string . . as opposed to what he did there. Who knows? Maybe he really is that good? Nah . . . .
-
Originally Posted by destinytot
-
Originally Posted by Patrick2
>>>>>i think i've talked about how much i like allan [holdsworth] in here before (you can do a search on his name).... but eddie, i don't think i have. i really think he is a great player and someone i always enjoy hearing. there was a time i went to [Van Halen] shows as much as possible just to check him out. one time, i got to go back before a show and hear him warm up - which was absolutely mind blowing - he played more incredible music in that 30 minutes of warmup time than he did in the all the vh "shows" that i heard rolled together. he is so creative - it would be great to hear him expand into other areas - especially now that "heavy metal" is about as dead as it could possibly be (who would have thought that that would happen in 1984?) eddie is more like a jazz guy anyway to me - he is always searching for sounds and ideas it seems.
thanks for writing<<<<<
Pat Metheny : Question & Answer
-
One thing interesting about the Eddie Van Halen tremelo technique is he keeps his arm and wrist relaxed and does it with an "oscilating" motion (Tuck Andress's term). Different grip and hand/arm position but, the same kind of wrist motion used with the Benson technique. At least it looks that way to me.
Last edited by fep; 07-04-2014 at 02:29 PM.
-
07-04-2014, 02:27 PM #206destinytot GuestOriginally Posted by MarkRhodes
-
Originally Posted by fep
-
Originally Posted by fep
I wonder what John Scofield (-probably my favorite contemporary jazz guitar soloist) would do with a right hand like that!
-
I just started working on "benson picking" thanks to Mark on this thread. I of course am at the very beginning of this adventure and I don't know if I'll really stick to it, but I can immediately see what kind of benefits one can reap by getting this down. The tone is fuller and when it does work, timing is more consistent.
-
Originally Posted by AlainJazz
Last edited by MarkRhodes; 07-05-2014 at 09:11 AM.
-
To those trying this: is your pick really perpendicular to the strings or does the pick hit the string at somewhat of an angle? Also are you all really keeping that index finger perfectly straight or is it a bit curved? Thanks.
-
Originally Posted by AlainJazz
-
Originally Posted by AlainJazz
Of all the clips I've seen of GB his pick angle changes whilst playing. Usually it seems to be 45 degrees but I'm guessing.
There is only one photo of GB where his pick appears to be approaching 90 degrees and that could have been in the middle of a strum for all we know.
-
Originally Posted by AlainJazz
Alain, I'm puzzled by this question because I should think that if a pick were perpendicular to a string, it would be at an angle to it.
-
Originally Posted by Philco
-
I watched Philco's video and had an ah-ha moment, when he simply said that the hand and fingers positions should be the most natural ones. It makes perfect sense and when you use that principle, you don't even have to think about it, everything falls into place. And there's a great chance that this is how Benson came up with this technique. There's nothing magic or complicated about it : when watching Philco's video I didn't have my guitar, so I just put my hand in front of my stomach (as if I was playing a guitar) in the most natural way, without forcing anything. And there I had it, the perfect position for picking : my arm totally relaxed, the tip of my thumb naturally touched the pad of my index, creating the perfect grip for a guitar pick. Now when I practice, if there's a moment when I'm not sure about how I pick, I just remember the words "relaxed and natural" and I'm immediately back on track. I'm still new to that approach, but it already feels very nice. And I believe in it because, as I said earlier, it just makes perfect sense that the most natural position is also the most efficient one.
Last edited by Nabil B; 07-07-2014 at 04:19 AM.
-
Thanks guys. This is very helpful. Philco, Mark, the reason I asked about the straightness of the index and the pick angle is that for my fingers I've experienced exactly the opposite. The straighter my index gets, the greater the pick angle and therefore the more difficult this technique gets for me. If I just hold the pick naturally (which therefore means a slight curve of the index finger), it works perfectly. I just wanted to check because I didn't feel like practicing something that is going be a bad habit later.
-
Originally Posted by Professor Jones
But, for me at least, the, um, dysfunctional way I held a pick before felt natural (in the sense of being what I was used to, causing no strain or pain, and so on.)
I do think this way is far better and when you say "it feels natural," I know what you mean and Philco does, but for someone who is picking the conventional way and has for a long time, that feels natural to them. It just isn't as effective (for most players). I want to be clear: I'm not disagreeing with you. But I think if you tell people picking the other way that "this one feels natural" they may well, and truthfully say, "Well, my way feels natural to me."
Further, I think that after one gets into the "general vicinity" with this technique, there's still some fine tuning to do. I believe Philco talked about working on this for quite a while. That's where I am, sold on the general principle, but still working out a few fine points. For example, how much to 'roll away' the top of the hand from the strings. Small changes there can make big differences.
-
Originally Posted by AlainJazz
I signed up for a month of JC's coaching and I'm going to have to fine-tune a few things, so I'll be making one too. Over time, a series of photos / short vids will provide you with a record of your evolution in learning this.
As for the straight index, it's not the whole finger. And it's not really straight, per se. The point is that the thumb pushes against the index, so the index doesn't curl / curve in. That's my take.
-
Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
Now I'm not suggesting that this technique is the end all be all of picking, and that everyone should be using it. Russell Malone, just to name one, is using a standard grip and has incredible control, speed and accuracy. But for people like you and me, who felt that their picking technique was lacking and that they weren't seeing any real improvement despite the constant practicing, this new way of picking might be the real ticket to real technical progress.
As for the fine tuning, I honestly doubt that it will make that big of a difference. Now I might be totally wrong about that, but that is what I'm feeling right now. I just think that by using a totally relaxed and natural approach, I will make significant progress. Let us know how the coaching works for you !
-
Russel Malone uses Benson picking for all his fast stuff. He sometimes uses standard grip for chord melody pieces.
-
Originally Posted by ecj
-
His thumb back-bends like crazy. I've seen him live a few times, and he's definitely bringing the pick against the string with the reverse angle like Benson when he starts picking quickly. Pictures are tough because they capture things at weird moments.
I think that picture is from this video:
Go to right around 3:00 and look at his thumb and the angle of the pick when he starts playing 8th note lines.
-
Originally Posted by Professor Jones
Then I experimented with different grips. Started asking good payers I met how they held their picks. Most of 'em looked at me funny, like they'd never thought about it. "Hell, I don't know. Like that. You gotta do whatever's comfortable for you."
This frustrated me no end. My issue was not comfort. The other way didn't feel weird or cause strain. It just wasn't clean and fast enough.
The Benson grip feels natural. I agree. But if it didn't work, I wouldn't stick with it for the sake of the feel.
Also, as for a fine point: I find the most comfortable way to hold a pick is for one shoulder of it to point along the index, while the tip points out from the middle of the finger. (Looked at it profile, it suggests a tomahawk.) That is the most comfortable thing I've found but it isn't what I'm doing because it isn't articulate enough. I tilt the pick (from that position) until it gives me the contact I want. I'm not following feel here but results. Perhaps later when That Muscle in my grip is more developed I will be able to hold the pick "tomahawk" style and get the clarity I want.
Now, none of this should be taken to mean I think you are wrong. I am happy you had that a-ha moment, and I hope you've got the grip down for good. I look forward to seeing / hearing the results. God knows I'm a slow learner and I realize it takes me a lot longer to "get it" than it takes many others.
I made a video for JC Stylles today. A two-minute bit of me doing a couple things so he can see if if got the grip right and make any needed corrections / suggestions. I'm eager (and not a little nervous) to hear what he says.
-
Originally Posted by ecj
Originally Posted by MarkRhodesLast edited by Nabil B; 07-07-2014 at 05:30 PM.
What's happening at the end of this song?
Today, 07:55 PM in Ear Training, Transcribing & Reading