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Wow. That's a good racket innit.
Originally Posted by _-'-_
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08-04-2016 05:55 AM
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how depressing
jc styles is just one place to go - and almost all the others are free free free
the best single place to go is benson's simply astonishing 'masterclass' filmed at his house in front of (one of) his fire(s)
even though he spends ten minutes explaining how he came to make the guitar sound (a bit) like bagpipes - its still a treasure trove
i did jc's thing and it cost me 90 quid - it was only barely worth that.
i'm sure you could get a one on one Skype lesson from benson's only current student peter farrell for way less than that - and he is incomparably better able to help you than jcs.
ps - i'm three years into to serious benson conversion and i'm starting to reap the rewards now - totally worth the work
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I think I paid 45 dollars for JC's tutorial. He ran a deal for members here---half off the regular 90 dollar price. $495 sounds way off to me; perhaps that price includes more than just the tutorial, such as skype lessons.
JC can play well---he's definitely got his stuff together---but that first tutorial is less than it could have been. Largely because the camera work was insufficient to the show what needs to be shown.
In JC's defense, when he did that, there wasn't so much material around. At least that was known of here. Nowadays, we have all kinds of video available and some of it has a tight focus on the picking hand, so it is easier to see (and to slow down the video so one can really see) what is happening.
Here's a clip of JC. Not great camera work on the right hand, but the guy's a major player and we shouldn't forget that.
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08-04-2016, 10:21 AM #1804destinytot GuestIt's on sale at exactly ten times that price. (Not quite 495USD - but close.) Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
There's that line about a lacy wedding dress from Joni's Song for Sharon, " Some girl's gonna see that dress and crave that day like crazy." Guess I'm that girl. (Wait a minute...)
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Don't buy the JC Styles tutorial. I usually refrain from talking bad about other people or their work, but in my honest opinion that tutorial is just crap. He just repeats himself over and over and over again and doesn't even give you any exercises or address many of the most important aspects of getting the technique down. I'll give you a Skype lesson for 1/5th the price with exercises. Or get a lesson with Peter Pharell who is George's protégé.
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That's hard to believe. Are we sure it is the same video? And nothing more? If so, that's not cricket! Originally Posted by destinytot
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08-04-2016, 01:29 PM #1807destinytot GuestI don't know that it's the same video: Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
https://jcstyllesjazzguitarcoach.zen...cking-tutorial
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I wonder what the price is after the discount.... Originally Posted by destinytot
Are we to think JC is soon to be offering this (or closely related) material in another format / venue???
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Sorry I had the price wrong, $450 not $495. "Extra coaching support optional", so I assume that it's not included in the price.
Anyhow my main question is what exactly are the Shape and the Shake, referred to repeatedly upstream?
The pricing is up to him but even if he has a copyright on those terms I assume the underlying concepts are not something he invented since it came from Benson via Rodney Jones as far as I understand. I wonder if they are getting a cut?
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"The Shape" is how one holds the pick and "the Shake" is how one moves the pick. Or, how one moves the hand which holds the pick.) Originally Posted by _-'-_
I doubt Rodney and George receive a cut. I doubt they expect one.
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08-05-2016, 03:36 AM #1811destinytot GuestNot specifically, but there are insights into 'the mechanics of motion'. I found this one useful: Originally Posted by _-'-_
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I've emailed them asking that they do a benson picker... Maybe if enough of us ask they will... Would be great to see the right hand in detailed slow motion.
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08-05-2016, 09:04 AM #1813destinytot Guest Originally Posted by christianm77
Nice one! (You beat me to it, but I'll email now.)
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I wonder what percentage of the Method---in George's eyes---is about picking at all. A member here who is a good friend of Henry Johnson (-one of George's students) has said that much of what he has seen online about George's approach is wrong.(Not wrong in itself but wrong about what George actually does.) That George's approach is much more about the left hand than the right (-picking) hand. Then there is your approach to playing after you've got your picking squared away.... Originally Posted by destinytot
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08-05-2016, 12:11 PM #1815destinytot GuestI buy that - and I buy a comment I saw somewhere (on the forum) to the effect that it's all in the thumb, in rapid consecutive thumb downstrokes. Then there's grace and poise - not so easy to download. Originally Posted by MarkRhodes
From Troy Grady.com:
"Sean Mullen says:
September 6, 2014 at 7:54 pm
Hi Troy …. is there a case to be argued for the up slant pick stroke that George benson seems to use (double jointed thumb) … Tuck Andress wrote any article extolling the virtues if that approach … your thoughts ? kind regards Sean ….and what an awesome series uve made … ��
Reply
Troy Grady says:
September 10, 2014 at 7:17 pm
George Benson is a downward pickslanter! And an iconic one at that. His string-switch strategy is roughly the same as Yngwie’s. However I think you may be referring to “edge picking”, which we discuss at length in Talking the Code, and also in two episodes of the show — S1E8 and S2E1. As I mention in the show, I started out as a trailing edge picker, which is the ‘backwards’ orientation I imagine you’re referring to. George does this, as did Shawn Lane, and as did Paul Gilbert when he was younger. I I personally switched to leading edge when I saw Yngwie’s technique. I can’t say if there’s any real benefit to doing this one way or another, however I can say that leading edge is far more commonplace at the elite level, and also among guitarists in general."
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Originally Posted by destinytot
Interesting bit from Troy there. Thanks for that.
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I have a similar reply from them. Tbh I'm now switching back to standard grip for various reasons, but trying to apply some lessons learned from benson picking.
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08-07-2016, 09:25 AM #1818dortmundjazzguitar Guestwow, 450$ for 90 min of "instruction"? questions cost extra? i assume you could buy quite a few skype or corresondence lessons with rodney jones for that money. i mean US guitarists could probably just fly to NYC and take a 90 min lesson with jones for that money? Originally Posted by _-'-_
a quick cash-in before the GBI goes live and claims the term "benson picking"?
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08-08-2016, 05:59 AM #1819dortmundjazzguitar Guest
extreme pick-flexing:
benson palm-muting at 4:23:
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Thanks for the video links, dortmundjazz. GB was a lot more flexible with his picking than acknowledged. I surmise GB himself didn't stick rigidly to Benson-picking. GB angled his pick to obtain the speed and tone that he wanted for a particular line or moment. Yes, there is Benson-picking but there are times when he veered from that, too.
The way Benson-picking is presented you can see that the pick is fashioned after a classical guitarist's fingers and thumb. The leading edge upstroke mimicks the ramp of a classical guitarist's fingernails. The trailing edge downstroke mimicks that of the thumb and the ramp of the thumbnail. The pick is kept flexible and the rounded edge is often used to mimick the tone of flesh and nail.
Lots of parallels between classical guitar techniques and Benson-picking. Much can be gained from understanding how a classical guitarist shapes his tone with his thumb and fingers, and applying it to the pick. It may be a happy coincidence that GB figured out the same thing using a pick.
In my inexpert observation anyway...Last edited by Jabberwocky; 08-08-2016 at 06:29 AM.
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Django didn't always stick rigidly to Gypsy picking: Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
I'm noticing a pattern here :-)
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08-08-2016, 06:42 AM #1822destinytot Guest
Rotation*, pick slanting, string tracking - thank you, Troy Grady.
*on more than one axis
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08-08-2016, 07:20 AM #1823dortmundjazzguitar Guesti'm not so sure. i think he still sticks pretty rigidly to his picking. i mean, he plays an archtop guitar in front of a large electric band, often in huge venues, where the sound is usually out of his control. so he needs the stuff that he still has control over to be as consistent as possible. notably his picking. like archimedes said: "give me a fixed point...". when for some reason (too much feedback, archtop without pick-guard) this is not possible, even GB struggles (a bit). Originally Posted by Jabberwocky
the closest to benson picking in classical is probably the lute technique.
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I finally got a hold of an Ibanez George Benson pick and was curious to see how different it is to the fender medium.
Same shape exactly but I did notice it is definitely thinner. I did a few blind tests myself and I had some other people check it out and everyone could tell me the Ibanez pick was thinner.
Someone had said in a thread that they thought the grip was a little better but honestly I didn't notice any difference in that regard.
While practicing alone I liked the slightly thinner pick and the way it moved over the strings but when I used it on a gig I found myself unable to dig in as much. When I wanted to push harder on the string I found the pick bending too much. Maybe I need to use more angle to mitigate the thinness.
Anyone else have thoughts on this? In the end it made me appreciate my good old fender mediums more. A .25c pick found in every music shop on the planet.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Yeah I keep coming back to the Fender Medium.
I like to try others and I sometimes get excited for a day or two and then I'm back on the FM and wondering how it can sound and feel so good.
This whole BT has changed my playing life.
I've never had so much fun on the instrument.
I just bought a gross of Fender Mediums (another one!)
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