Benson Picking technique on Gibson L5 Wesmo

**Groyniad** · 11-19-2015, 12:40 PM

when you place the pick SLIGHTLY towards the top edge of your index you need to balance things out by tucking the thumb in

'tucking the thumb in' ???? - this comes across quite clearly in lots and lots of benson videos - his thumb seems to be resting not in the central area of the pick but towards its 'lower' edge. 'lower' is OF COURSE ambiguous here - but look at the benson vids to see what is meant - its further down into your hand rather than further up out of your hand (and of course - that is ambiguous too).

all the very best to everyone here!

**Groyniad** · 11-19-2015, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by Robertkoa

To play fast passages and still control the Rhythm and Accents AND to mix fast and slow passages it is MUCH better to use the same pick and wrist motion for Both types.
With too much Arm ( which is usually an illusion ) the Player tends to lose the accents and feeling of up and down alternate picking and ability to cross strings...skip strings etc.IMO.
Do a Tremolo picking one note as fast as you can...
Does adding Arm Motion REALLY speed it up ?
Does it throw off the Rhythm even if it helps your speed.( which is doubtful )?
You should be playing in double time or quadruple time...very hard to play using the Arm..IMO.

these views are interesting and the topic is really important

for goodness sake - from a phenomenological point of view, nothing could be much more significant. we're talking about which part of your body you use as the instrument of your musical will - which part(s) of you you use to play the guitar with. (we use our arms and hands as the 'instrument of our will' when we stretch out to pick up a cup of tea; we use our legs, arms and hands when we jump up and stretch to catch a ball; we use our hands and fingers (primarily) when we use knives and forks to eat etc. etc.).

so we're talking about nothing less than which bit of you is the bit you move in order to pick.

there are lots of these 'bits' of course. even when you would happily describe yourself as picking from the wrist, you might also want to say that you're conscious of holding (on to) the pick in playing, as well as moving your wrist in playing. still - we would want to say (i think) - 'i'm playing with my wrist more than with my finger and thumb. i couldn't play unless i held my finger and thumb in a certain way - but what it is for me to play is for me to move my wrist in this sort of way...' so usually at least there's one bit of you which is the bit you'd naturally say you're 'playing with' or 'playing from' at any given time.

if i am using my arm to pick i'm in a different world than if i'm using my fingers and wrist to pick

i've hardly put any conscious thought into all this over the years - never until the last few years. and that itself is kind of amazing - it seems to me. (i grew up playing flute - and i was never in any doubt whatever about which bit of me was doing it all - my gob (embrachure), and lungs.)

i don't do the dog shaking movement (i don't think)

i play mostly from the wrist

i don't use fingers (in the way i've seen some amazing benson pickers use their fingers)

i am trying to learn to play from (there's a good phrase) - to play from the arm (whilst relying heavily on the pinky pivot/anchor) for very fast passages. and part of that involves using a slightly modified version of The Basic Technique (all elaborated above - mostly by nunocpinto.)

but i'm very conscious that each body-area has its own distinctive strengths and weaknesses as a thing that picks (a thing through which my musical effort expresses itself).

my hunch is that getting really good at picking crucially depends on finding the good places to 'play from' (fingers, wrist, elbow, whole arm?).

tuck andres - very insightfully i think - says that the great thing about 'locking up the grip' (lots of posts on this above) is that it allows you to experiment with different 'places' (these are all bits of you - that's why 'places' is in quotes there) to play from.

destinytot · 11-19-2015, 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by Dennis D

" Benson's Rider"....

Wow....and wow again......

Here's what happens when you hire good players and let them play....

There's nothing wrong if the music makes you want to stomp your feet.....

Thank you a million for including this!

Sorry, I'm pretty sure my comments are off topic. I'm just grateful YT has these vids to watch, and also grateful that these vids get mentioned can get the attention of younger players.

Sincerely, thanks again.

Thanks a million to you for this great comment (the first I've read on the forum this evening after a hard-but-satisfying day's work).

destinytot · 11-19-2015, 05:22 PM

Originally Posted by Robertkoa

To play fast passages and still control the Rhythm and Accents AND to mix fast and slow passages it is MUCH better to use the same pick and wrist motion for Both types.
With too much Arm ( which is usually an illusion ) the Player tends to lose the accents and feeling of up and down alternate picking and ability to cross strings...skip strings etc.IMO.
Do a Tremolo picking one note as fast as you can...
Does adding Arm Motion REALLY speed it up ?
Does it throw off the Rhythm even if it helps your speed.( which is doubtful )?
You should be playing in double time or quadruple time...very hard to play using the Arm..IMO.

Very interesting - I agree about the illusion, though I'm definitely aware of rotation of the arm. But I'm also aware of a a 'spreading/separating' feeling in the hand. To be examined - thank you!

destinytot · 11-21-2015, 05:13 PM

Ah - the joy of jazz guitar! I find myself with two amplified archtops and two pick grips, which have in common principles learned - through much trial and error - from contributions to this thread. Thanks and best wishes to all on this wonderful thread.

destinytot · 11-22-2015, 07:18 AM

On the subject of inspiration, check out this forum member's chops (and taste):

**MarkRhodes** · 11-22-2015, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by destinytot

On the subject of inspiration, check out this forum member's chops (and taste):

Inspirational, indeed! I enjoyed this one more than his performance of Bird's "Kim", posted on another thread.

destinytot · 11-22-2015, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by MarkRhodes

Inspirational, indeed! I enjoyed this one more than his performance of Bird's "Kim", posted on another thread.

I enjoyed both - but Peterson solos on guitar... who'd have thought it?

**MarkRhodes** · 11-27-2015, 05:58 PM

Where's Evan (ecj)? Haven't heard from him in a long time. Hope all's well. Anyone here know?

**Groyniad** · 11-28-2015, 07:04 AM

first solo i ever worked out was a peterson 12 bar from night train

this really was an inspiration

the thing about oscar is that it all works so incredibly obviously well - everything is so exactly right - so easy to hear

and even more than that - all the stuff that works so well swings harder than it works

that first phrase - could that be anyone but oscar. no-one gets the grammar of be-bop better - and he wasn't even a be-bop player. what a player!

i'm going to get into some serious oscar

**MarkRhodes** · 11-28-2015, 10:41 AM

Speaking of Oscar Peterson's "Night Train," I hadn't enjoyed that in far too long. Others may feel the same.

**Groyniad** · 11-28-2015, 12:53 PM

i think its gold that album

----

back to gb

i should declare that i really don't like smooth jazz - i'm inclined to say that i dislike it intensely - jazz is not, and cannot be, smooth - even when its like velvet its still not smooth - its too dirty (among other things) to be smooth

bla bla

so i don't feel in my element with this clip at all. of course - i appreciate how kind of relaxed and groovy it all is - very much so.

but what i want to draw attention to in this clip is benson's posture.

no really great musician looks anything less than supremely relaxed when they're playing - and gb really is the most wonderful picture of relaxation and comfort here.

i think the guitar seems to help - it certainly looks like no encumbrance to him whatever (it doesn't look heavy and he is never bending over it to look at it etc.) - he doesn't seem to have to inconvenience himself physically one bit in order to do his moves on it.

(wes looks this relaxed sitting down with a guitar i think)

it is not a coincidence that the man seems exactly as cool and groovy as the music feels

(and there's lots of great footage of The Technique here for us hopeless bpt freaks)

destinytot · 11-28-2015, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by Groyniad

i think its gold that album

----

back to gb

i should declare that i really don't like smooth jazz - i'm inclined to say that i dislike it intensely - jazz is not, and cannot be, smooth - even when its like velvet its still not smooth - its too dirty (among other things) to be smooth

bla bla

so i don't feel in my element with this clip at all. of course - i appreciate how kind of relaxed and groovy it all is - very much so.

I respect that opinion, but - as I love some of Earl Klugh's music down to my soul - I hope you'll check out both solos here. Does it count as smooth jazz (not that it makes any difference)? Probably not, but I really don't know. Anyway... EK, who toured with GB in the '7Os, plays throughout and takes the second solo:

destinytot · 11-28-2015, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by Groyniad

jazz is not, and cannot be, smooth - even when its like velvet its still not smooth - its too dirty (among other things) to be smooth

I broadly agree, but... speaking only for myself, 'jazz' is about the right (EDIT a duty) to wear soft leather shoes. A right that's hard-earned and easily lost. Benson is great on many levels.

**Groyniad** · 11-28-2015, 01:15 PM

absolutely - excuse my outburst. it feels great - that's the deal.

i was very impressed with EK's playing too - great feel. and the nylon sound was very robust - it really held its own i thought.

thanks for the clip!

**AlainJazz** · 11-30-2015, 08:34 AM

Interestingly, I've found that now, after getting this technique to the point that picking "normally" feels awkward, the actual pick doesn't matter much. Believe it or not, I've recently switched back to my old trusty tiny Jazz IIIs and can still benson pick quite comfortably. I like the tone better than the FMs also. I know this is contrary to what JC Stylles has stated before but it seems to work for me.

destinytot · 11-30-2015, 09:57 AM

The pick-guard on my Sonntag Augusta is about 7cm higher than the one on the Ibanez - but what a difference. Anyway, pinky stays planted...

**christianm77** · 11-30-2015, 10:28 AM

Aha, this thread's back.... :-)

I'm playing around with what I understand to be GB picking at the moment (I daresay JC Stylles will beg to differ.) Whatever the it is I am doing, I have plenty of fluency and I really like the sound especially on electric, though it is also a functional approach to acoustic picking as well... I'm seeing it as a variant of gypsy picking, essentially....

If I don't switch, the big thing I have taken away from it is the importance of setting up the pick at an angle to the strings. I'm now moving away from using the super heavy picks towards using lighter (still 1mm+) picks. This functions well with more trad grip gypsy picking. It's not uncomfortable to do this. But GB picking sets the hand up in such away that this is not only comfortable but mandatory...

So, here we go, could this be my second technique change in a decade? ;-)

**christianm77** · 11-30-2015, 10:40 AM

Been checking out Adam Rogers a lot... Check out his Right Hand in this shred-tastic clip... Seems like he's combining Benson picking with right hand muting/anchoring:

Even for clean:

Again involves quite a bit of anchoring, and the arm is relatively straight.

A bit different from Sheryl Bailey's posture. Arm comes right under....

Seems like quite a versatile technique, no? I understand GB himself varied his arm position without changing the fundamentals of the approach...

Are both this techniques Benson picking, or something else?

**christianm77** · 11-30-2015, 10:42 AM

Giniaux plays with quite a straight arm, but this is understandable given he is picking near the bridge:

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**setemupjoe** · 11-30-2015, 11:11 AM

Both Adam and Sheryl use versions of the Benson technique. My technique is most similar to Sheryl's. Giniaux is not using benson technique at all but is more in line with traditional gypsy picking.

**MarkRhodes** · 11-30-2015, 11:16 AM

Originally Posted by setemupjoe

Both Adam and Sheryl use versions of the Benson technique. My technique is most similar to Sheryl's. Giniaux is not using benson technique at all but is more in line with traditional gypsy picking.

I have some of Sheryl's TrueFire courses and have a great chance to watch her picking hand. She was my introduction to this approach to picking, via an old "Guitar Player" article that didn't include a picture of her grip at all. I wasn't sure what she was doing but started experimenting. What I'm doing now is very different----I grip the pick by the point and play with a shoulder---but I'll always have a soft spot for Sheryl because she opened a door for me. (Took me a couple decades to get through it, but that's all on me, not her.)

destinytot · 11-30-2015, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by setemupjoe

Both Adam and Sheryl use versions of the Benson technique. My technique is most similar to Sheryl's. Giniaux is not using benson technique at all but is more in line with traditional gypsy picking.

I notice that, in Sheryl's grip, her thumb seems to go over the forefinger. Benson's sometimes appears to, too. I'd love to read thoughts on this.
EDIT And I'm wondering whether this might be because she has pick on the side - rather than on the pad - of her index finger.