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when you place the pick SLIGHTLY towards the top edge of your index you need to balance things out by tucking the thumb in
'tucking the thumb in' ???? - this comes across quite clearly in lots and lots of benson videos - his thumb seems to be resting not in the central area of the pick but towards its 'lower' edge. 'lower' is OF COURSE ambiguous here - but look at the benson vids to see what is meant - its further down into your hand rather than further up out of your hand (and of course - that is ambiguous too).
all the very best to everyone here!Last edited by Groyniad; 11-28-2015 at 01:17 PM.
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11-19-2015 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Robertkoa
these views are interesting and the topic is really important
for goodness sake - from a phenomenological point of view, nothing could be much more significant. we're talking about which part of your body you use as the instrument of your musical will - which part(s) of you you use to play the guitar with. (we use our arms and hands as the 'instrument of our will' when we stretch out to pick up a cup of tea; we use our legs, arms and hands when we jump up and stretch to catch a ball; we use our hands and fingers (primarily) when we use knives and forks to eat etc. etc.).
so we're talking about nothing less than which bit of you is the bit you move in order to pick.
there are lots of these 'bits' of course. even when you would happily describe yourself as picking from the wrist, you might also want to say that you're conscious of holding (on to) the pick in playing, as well as moving your wrist in playing. still - we would want to say (i think) - 'i'm playing with my wrist more than with my finger and thumb. i couldn't play unless i held my finger and thumb in a certain way - but what it is for me to play is for me to move my wrist in this sort of way...' so usually at least there's one bit of you which is the bit you'd naturally say you're 'playing with' or 'playing from' at any given time.
if i am using my arm to pick i'm in a different world than if i'm using my fingers and wrist to pick
i've hardly put any conscious thought into all this over the years - never until the last few years. and that itself is kind of amazing - it seems to me. (i grew up playing flute - and i was never in any doubt whatever about which bit of me was doing it all - my gob (embrachure), and lungs.)
i don't do the dog shaking movement (i don't think)
i play mostly from the wrist
i don't use fingers (in the way i've seen some amazing benson pickers use their fingers)
i am trying to learn to play from (there's a good phrase) - to play from the arm (whilst relying heavily on the pinky pivot/anchor) for very fast passages. and part of that involves using a slightly modified version of The Basic Technique (all elaborated above - mostly by nunocpinto.)
but i'm very conscious that each body-area has its own distinctive strengths and weaknesses as a thing that picks (a thing through which my musical effort expresses itself).
my hunch is that getting really good at picking crucially depends on finding the good places to 'play from' (fingers, wrist, elbow, whole arm?).
tuck andres - very insightfully i think - says that the great thing about 'locking up the grip' (lots of posts on this above) is that it allows you to experiment with different 'places' (these are all bits of you - that's why 'places' is in quotes there) to play from.Last edited by Groyniad; 11-19-2015 at 03:53 PM.
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11-19-2015, 05:11 PM #1603destinytot GuestOriginally Posted by Dennis D
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11-19-2015, 05:22 PM #1604destinytot GuestOriginally Posted by Robertkoa
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11-21-2015, 05:13 PM #1605destinytot Guest
Ah - the joy of jazz guitar! I find myself with two amplified archtops and two pick grips, which have in common principles learned - through much trial and error - from contributions to this thread. Thanks and best wishes to all on this wonderful thread.
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11-22-2015, 07:18 AM #1606destinytot Guest
On the subject of inspiration, check out this forum member's chops (and taste):
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Originally Posted by destinytot
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11-22-2015, 11:34 AM #1608destinytot GuestOriginally Posted by MarkRhodes
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Where's Evan (ecj)? Haven't heard from him in a long time. Hope all's well. Anyone here know?
Last edited by MarkRhodes; 11-30-2015 at 02:12 PM.
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first solo i ever worked out was a peterson 12 bar from night train
this really was an inspiration
the thing about oscar is that it all works so incredibly obviously well - everything is so exactly right - so easy to hear
and even more than that - all the stuff that works so well swings harder than it works
that first phrase - could that be anyone but oscar. no-one gets the grammar of be-bop better - and he wasn't even a be-bop player. what a player!
i'm going to get into some serious oscarLast edited by Groyniad; 11-28-2015 at 07:35 AM.
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Speaking of Oscar Peterson's "Night Train," I hadn't enjoyed that in far too long. Others may feel the same.
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i think its gold that album
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back to gb
i should declare that i really don't like smooth jazz - i'm inclined to say that i dislike it intensely - jazz is not, and cannot be, smooth - even when its like velvet its still not smooth - its too dirty (among other things) to be smooth
bla bla
so i don't feel in my element with this clip at all. of course - i appreciate how kind of relaxed and groovy it all is - very much so.
but what i want to draw attention to in this clip is benson's posture.
no really great musician looks anything less than supremely relaxed when they're playing - and gb really is the most wonderful picture of relaxation and comfort here.
i think the guitar seems to help - it certainly looks like no encumbrance to him whatever (it doesn't look heavy and he is never bending over it to look at it etc.) - he doesn't seem to have to inconvenience himself physically one bit in order to do his moves on it.
(wes looks this relaxed sitting down with a guitar i think)
it is not a coincidence that the man seems exactly as cool and groovy as the music feels
(and there's lots of great footage of The Technique here for us hopeless bpt freaks)
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11-28-2015, 01:04 PM #1613destinytot GuestOriginally Posted by Groyniad
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11-28-2015, 01:11 PM #1614destinytot GuestOriginally Posted by Groyniad
Last edited by destinytot; 11-28-2015 at 01:13 PM. Reason: addition
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absolutely - excuse my outburst. it feels great - that's the deal.
i was very impressed with EK's playing too - great feel. and the nylon sound was very robust - it really held its own i thought.
thanks for the clip!
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Interestingly, I've found that now, after getting this technique to the point that picking "normally" feels awkward, the actual pick doesn't matter much. Believe it or not, I've recently switched back to my old trusty tiny Jazz IIIs and can still benson pick quite comfortably. I like the tone better than the FMs also. I know this is contrary to what JC Stylles has stated before but it seems to work for me.
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11-30-2015, 09:57 AM #1617destinytot Guest
The pick-guard on my Sonntag Augusta is about 7cm higher than the one on the Ibanez - but what a difference. Anyway, pinky stays planted...
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Aha, this thread's back.... :-)
I'm playing around with what I understand to be GB picking at the moment (I daresay JC Stylles will beg to differ.) Whatever the it is I am doing, I have plenty of fluency and I really like the sound especially on electric, though it is also a functional approach to acoustic picking as well... I'm seeing it as a variant of gypsy picking, essentially....
If I don't switch, the big thing I have taken away from it is the importance of setting up the pick at an angle to the strings. I'm now moving away from using the super heavy picks towards using lighter (still 1mm+) picks. This functions well with more trad grip gypsy picking. It's not uncomfortable to do this. But GB picking sets the hand up in such away that this is not only comfortable but mandatory...
So, here we go, could this be my second technique change in a decade? ;-)Last edited by christianm77; 11-30-2015 at 10:31 AM.
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Been checking out Adam Rogers a lot... Check out his Right Hand in this shred-tastic clip... Seems like he's combining Benson picking with right hand muting/anchoring:
Even for clean:
Again involves quite a bit of anchoring, and the arm is relatively straight.
A bit different from Sheryl Bailey's posture. Arm comes right under....
Seems like quite a versatile technique, no? I understand GB himself varied his arm position without changing the fundamentals of the approach...
Are both this techniques Benson picking, or something else?
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Giniaux plays with quite a straight arm, but this is understandable given he is picking near the bridge:
http
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Both Adam and Sheryl use versions of the Benson technique. My technique is most similar to Sheryl's. Giniaux is not using benson technique at all but is more in line with traditional gypsy picking.
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Originally Posted by setemupjoe
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11-30-2015, 12:56 PM #1623destinytot GuestOriginally Posted by setemupjoe
EDIT And I'm wondering whether this might be because she has pick on the side - rather than on the pad - of her index finger.Last edited by destinytot; 11-30-2015 at 02:30 PM. Reason: addition
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Giniaux is not using traditional gypsy jazz picking in terms of how is gripping the pick.
I think I am missing something.
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Originally Posted by christianm77
Heritage Johnny Smith incoming
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