Benson Picking technique on Gibson L5 Wesmo

[AlainJazz]

No No it's not too long at all destiny. I love your posts. So this what I've spent all day doing: watching Nile Rodgers videos, including the one you posted. At first I thought he's basically using the benson grip, but after watching many videos, I also realized that is a red herring (as you say). I've got 11s on my Tele and it has an incredibly snappy funk sound. I'm coming to the realization that I need to do something different to make this work. Benson picking doesn't work for me with heavier picks but I think it is easier to learn how to strum differently with a medium pick than it or to learn how to benson pick with a heavy pick. After a few hours of trying everything possible, I think this may work for me. So basically, I'm trying to use benson picking for soloing and "simple" comping, and switch to a traditional grip for the more elaborate strumming. It felt weird at first but after a few hours it's starting to feel natural.

[destinytot]

OK. So I've just been trying the strumming thing unplugged - no doubt the voicings aren't the 'right' ones. And I'm probably being too heavy-handed in my strokes - and I think that's key.

It's the fluidity - that smooth (rather than 'rapid') flow - that I like in Benson's playing: nothing about it jars with me. Again, it may seem obvious ( a kind of musical version of the Hippocratic oath), but this is an ideal worth striving for. It's also what I prefer to hear from percussion - including rhythm guitar.

I'm struggling towards that ideal, but this much I'm sure of: every sound has a place where it belongs, and that place is its home - a dwelling place for elegance and beauty.

In practical terms, what I'm saying is that I believe greater economy of movement is required than one might conclude from watching Nile Rodgers's hand/arm. I think his signature percussive strumming is perfectly achievable using smaller movements from an anchored Benson grip.

[destinytot]

Does anyone know of good video examples of people playing more "regular" or funk strumming using benson picking technique?

THis looks close to me - his hand's mobile but seems lightly anchored, and he interjects short rapid lines: Check out twenty seconds or so from 1m40:

[destinytot]

Thanks destiny. Wouldn't you say though that that looks more like a traditional grip? The other video is incredible too but there also, when the fast strumming comes in during his solo, he switches to using his thumb.

Perhaps. But while I wouldn't go so far as to say he's using Benson picking, I recognise DWPS and the relaxed middle finger on up-turned, pinky-anchored hand. Whatever we call it, what he's doing seems to come from a position of mechanical advantage that might be an approach to strumming and Benson picking.

I don't see much of the rotation visible in Perry Hughes's playing of lines, but I do notice that funk-strum hand movement seems minimal. Even when he says "A little rhythm" @3:43 before strumming to the end, his pinky is visible, which suggests that the hand is 'anchored' (floating? - I always think of the Balducci levitation trick).

In the other video (the full tune), I'm pretty sure Perry Hughes strums those chords with his thumb for the timbre.

Perry Hughes's application of this technique is my preferred one; meticulously-crafted picking and fingering of lines that are full of chromatic approaches to chord tones - lines that have been calculated for rhythmic effect. My new 'toy' makes it so much easier to reach up a major third on the same string; I'm taking my cue from Django in that regard (and I suspect Benson and others before him did, too).

[ecj]

Ok. I've been going back and forth with benson picking for a very long time now. I went back to picking with traditional grip for a few months and found that for playing more rock/funk stuff, that it was easier because I could use a heavier pick. Now for the past week or so I've been back on the benson technique, and do find that it definitely gives one more control when soloing single notes. Now here is my dilemma (and that has been the issue tempting me to go back and forth all along): for the life of me, I cannot get around playing "strumming" rhythms with this technique. Think Nile Rodgers type of funk strumming. I can do it easily with a heavy pick and traditional grip, but then benson picking for soloing using the heavy pick doesn't work. I cannot play that kind of rhythm with traditional grip and a medium pick. So switching back and forth does not work. When I try strumming this kind of rhythm using a medium pick and the benson technique, it basically works but I feel like the pick is going to fly out of my hand all the time. Maybe I just need dedicated practice to strengthen my grip even more, but it feels very awkward as if I'm completely relearning how to play. Does anyone know of good video examples of people playing more "regular" or funk strumming using benson picking technique? Any tips would be appreciated.

I think the issue is probably that you just need some time to practice it. You can't automatically do everything with a new grip, but I haven't come up against anything that I couldn't learn with Benson picking that I could do with traditional grip. It just takes time.

I think rotating the forearm is the big thing for strumming with that grip. I mean, Benson is the king of crazy, funky strumming, so it's obviously possible (and maybe even advantageous) to do it with his technique. Look at how he starts this tune.

[AlainJazz]

Hi Ecj, point take ! But what do you mean about rotating the forearm?

[destinytot]

Hi Ecj, point take ! But what do you mean about rotating the forearm?

You might find it useful to check out a Troy 'the-lightning-strike-on-the-primordial-sea' (retch) Grady video on YouTube entitled Yngwie's Picking Technique: The Rotational Mechanic (Inside the Volcano, Chapter 25).

[ecj]

Hi Ecj, point take ! But what do you mean about rotating the forearm?

When I strum my whole forearm turns like the motion you use to turn a door knob. This makes the pick brush the strings on the upstroke rather than ramming it into them like you'd do if you just strum from the elbow.

You can see Benson do a very exaggerated example of this when he sweeps up. Watch the Take 5 vid and pay attention to how he moves his hand when he gets into all that crazy octave shit. That stuff is all basically strumming, but much more complicated and crazy than what most folks mean when they say "strumming".

He really rotates his forearm a lot. When he plays single-line stuff it's a different motion.

[AlainJazz]

Thanks ecj, I'll give it a try.

[destinytot]

Having overcome my bête noire - Aebersold vol.15 track 9 (a goal I didn't expect to reach) - I'm focusing on musical content.

I really don't know what Benson uses at speed, but I do know that arm rotation is the road for me.

I've also modified my grip (pick angled slightly to the side as wells as slanted downwards) and my thumb is so relaxed that I almost savour the feeling of pressing the pick through strings - as if to produce notes by pressing a doorbell. Low tension contributes to this feeling in no small way.

For anyone who hasn't seen the 'master class' video posted earlier, Julian Lage makes an observation about arm rotation and the fretting hand that applies equally to the picking hand.

Before talking about musculature, Julian Lage says, "The arm rotates, right?" He then asks, "Around which part does it rotate? Does it rotate around the thumb, or does it rotate around the pinky?"

After eliciting a range of answers that include other options (such as 'around the wrist' and 'around the middle finger'), Julian Lage goes on to say, "So for years I thought 'the thumb' - and mainly because the thumb is kind of planted, right?" He 'plants' his thumb on the back of his guitar neck.

But then he puts down his guitar, rolls up his shirt sleeve further than it already is, and gestures along his up-turned forearm, saying: "So you have two bones here. They run parallel to each other. And then, when your arm turns (rotates arm...), this bone crosses over (gestures across forearm diagonally from elbow to wrist...). So now you have an X. And you can tell this by if you put your hand on your elbow (rotates arm back and cups elbow in palm of other hand...), when you rotate, it doesn't move that much. I'm kind of making this big motion around it (exaggerates rotation...), but this (draws attention to cupped elbow...) isn't going with it. And if you do it in reverse, if you try and move the pinky round the thumb... it's difficult, right? So we rotate around the pinky (raises hand and arm straight up, gesturing along a path with other hand...) - what this means, in anatomical terms, is this pinky goes all the way to the tip of the shoulder blade. You should all try this with me if you can; trace your pinky all the way down, so that you can move it... (writhing, wriggling, squirming follows...) and you can feel it... I know it seems silly..."

Then someone shouts out, "Yoga!" Although there's laughter, perhaps it isn't silly after all.

I see rotation ('around the pinky') here, too:

[MarkRhodes]

THis looks close to me - his hand's mobile but seems lightly anchored, and he interjects short rapid lines: Check out twenty seconds or so from 1m40:

Big Meters fan here---known this song for a long time now. Nice to hear the guitar part isolated that way.

Here's the original version.

[MarkRhodes]

I've done a lot of four-to-the-bar comping this past week ("Moten Swing," "The Song Is Ended," "How Long Blues," "Flying Home") and noticed that I liked the result better when I tilted my guitar. My guitar rests on a small Dynarette cushion, which angles upward from back (the part nearest your torso) to front (the part nearest your knee) Like this: / (though not quite so steep.

I had been placing the guitar on the lower edge of the cushion, but when I moved the guitar's bottom up the slope, so to speak, the top of the guitar had a pronounced tilt backwards toward me. My arm felt different but in a good way. Things seemed to align differently in a strong way.

Anyone else here play with the guitar tilted? I read that Charlie Christian did this and that many acoustic players did because it allowed the guitar to generate more volume. I wouldn't mind that but it's not a big concern.

[destinytot]

Anyone else here play with the guitar tilted?

Not when I'm trying to use this picking technique, but otherwise I go to great lengths to keep the guitar tilted so the back's free to vibrate (merci Monk).

FWIW, when I tilt the guitar, I now slant my pick in the opposite direction to this technique, too. It works.

[nunocpinto]

Some Peter Farrell videos playing standards for inspiration

All Blues

Bye Bye Blackbyrd

( guitar solo at 6.44)

[destinytot]

Here's what it looks like to (finally) have confidence in your picking.

[Robertkoa]

Good progress.

Looks kind of difficult if you are not naturally inclined to it.

Using a more conventional pick technique can still give articulation similar to Benson.
If you look at a few live youtube videos of Norman Brown you will see what I mean.

By using a conventional angled pick and alternate picking at a 30 to 45 degree angle up from the face of the guitar upstrokes and downstrokes sound the same and you can dig in when you want to and increase articulation.
The great time feel and Blues/Funk/Urban musicality that Benson has- is another thing altogether but Brown has a lot of that as well.

[destinytot]

A recent clip of the wonderful Perry Hughes playing Stella:

[Philco]

Perry is tearing it up in this one......
Relaxed...........

[destinytot]

As I've been using the small-bodied Ibanez for a couple of months now, I'm now playing my Sonntag with a pick held at an angle like this / rather than this \.

I'm very happy with both, and I can switch comfortably between the two - but the tone from the Benson grip definitely rules. It just feels and sounds great to me.

[Groyniad]

i just had perhaps my final major breakthrough with the picking - which has been going very well even before the breakthrough

i think this particular detail is covered in the original posts of our esteemed OP

if you think of the pick as a triangle it is natural to address the strings with the pick so that the long edge is parallel to the strings and the point is pointing directly into the guitar. this does not help. what you need to do is to angle the pick-point 'backwards' towards the bridge so that the long edge is no longer parallel to the strings. you know as soon as you've done this properly because it becomes much easier to 'catch' the strings - especially on the up-stroke.

i had every aspect of the technique pretty much in place - and when i changed this i suddenly get a very considerable improvement both in sound (which was great already) but most obviously in articulation and speed.

you need to be catching the strings as well as it is possible to catch them if you are going to articulate fast lines in the gb way...

i'm a happy picker today

btw

use the following as material for picking exercise:

take maj and min eight note scales (added passing tone between 5 and 6). play one octave scales using three strings starting on 1,3,5 and 6. try to keep the 5, #5, 6 on the same string and use this bit of the scale to change positions on the neck.

you will end up with two octave scales in which the top octave has the same fingering as the bottom - and this helps with speed. you have to learn the scales inside out to use them as right hand training exercises - but that's a very positive side-effect of learning the right hand thing.

[Groyniad]

Perry is tearing it up in this one......
Relaxed...........

guys - dig the way the vaguely nice looking women ALL leave just as perry is getting his shit seriously together.

women like rock and roll - clueless. this solo is so good - it makes me fancy the guy!

[Philco]

guys - dig the way the vaguely nice looking women ALL leave just as perry is getting his shit seriously together.

women like rock and roll - clueless. this solo is so good - it makes me fancy the guy!

Wait........what?.........you mean to say....playing all my fast noodle will not attract females?
Surely you jest my friend?

Ive spent freakin years on this........and now you tell me? I even bought a beret and a collection of scarves!(the blue one was particularly nice and matched nicely with my brogues)

I planned to take it one step further and be the only Benson Picker who smoked a pipe whilst soloing.
Darn those new smoking laws.

This is very disappointing news indeed.

[55bar]

Wait........what?.........you mean to say....playing all my fast noodle will not attract females?
Surely you jest my friend?

Ive spent freakin years on this........and now you tell me? I even bought a beret and a collection of scarves!(the blue one was particularly nice and matched nicely with my brogues)

I planned to take it one step further and be the only Benson Picker who smoked a pipe whilst soloing.
Darn those new smoking laws.

This is very disappointing news indeed.

Brilliant!

[larry graves]

Since I bought my Wesmo I just play with my thumb.....You know, like Wes!....

[Groyniad]

another one!

they just keep coming -

try this

instead of thinking of everything as revolving around the down stroke (typically) on the strong beats think of everything as revolving around the up stroke (typically) on the weak beats.

you can do this because you have your fundamentals - your down stroke is a rest stroke and you're holding the pick right (i.e. in the benson manner for present purposes) - this means that your down stroke sort of happens by itself because of gravity and how relaxed your hand is.

the bit you really have to put yourself into is not the downstroke rest stroke - its the up stroke free stroke. the sense in which you have to 'put yourself into it' is simple - you can let your hand fall through the string on the down stroke but you have to flick it back up with the upstroke.

so feel the picking as a series of upward flicks with the index finger. just think of the index finger and feel yourself flicking it back and up.

part of this is going from feeling it as revolving round the thumb (pressing down a bit with it for a down stroke) to feeling it revolving round the index finger.

this is a nice gestalt switch - i've been in my thumb (so to speak) the whole time - its crazy suddenly to be (mainly) in my index finger.

as soon as i do this everything gets more solid and better articulated.

very nice