Benson Picking technique on Gibson L5 Wesmo

**MarkRhodes** · 02-07-2015, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by destinytot

I've gone off the deep end before (Alexander Technique), but I might as well be hung for a sheep as for a lamb...

Speaking for myself only, I strongly suspect that faulty perception and projection come into play. (I've become more disciplined in practising Tai Chi, and this is influencing my outlook in other areas.)

I studied the Alexander Technique for awhile and went for regular adjustments. Nothing about it was negative but I didn't seem to gain anything, so I stopped. I was young then and in good shape, so I wasn't nearly as out of whack as I am now! ;o)

destinytot · 02-07-2015, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by MarkRhodes

I studied the Alexander Technique for awhile and went for regular adjustments. Nothing about it was negative but I didn't seem to gain anything, so I stopped. I was young then and in good shape, so I wasn't nearly as out of whack as I am now! ;o)

AT helped me develop vocal technique and is great for developing Tai Chi, a discipline of soft body and empty mind. I recommend it. (Tssk -should have left ages ago instead of rushing to set up for a gig...)

destinytot · 02-07-2015, 09:15 PM

Originally Posted by destinytot

Greetings from chilly Valencia!

What you're describing is precisely how I expected it to be.

I could further speculate that the high degree of flex in the Fender Thin pick somehow compensates for the firmness of The Clamp - and it may be so - but it's also a red herring and beside the point, which is that there needn't be any more firmness in The Clamp than in any of the fingers on my fretting hand. That's what I take away from my experience of switching back to a medium pick (on an archtop semi).

This is not at all what I'd expected, and it's a liberating shift in thinking. Here's a metaphor: there's no greater air pressure in one part of an inflated child's balloon than there is in another.

I'm going to test it out tonight (and report back briefly on the morrow).

A conga player sat in at the end of the evening, which provided a good opportunity to try out the medium on some bouncy numbers. I had a lot of fun and it sounded OK, but I found the medium way too thin.

**ecj** · 02-08-2015, 02:47 AM

Originally Posted by destinytot

A conga player sat in at the end of the evening, which provided a good opportunity to try out the medium on some bouncy numbers. I had a lot of fun and it sounded OK, but I found the medium way too thin.

I'm more and more moving to preferring a 1.00 mm or thicker pick. The tone difference isn't that great when amplified, imo, but the thick pick is a little less forgiving of my tendency to get excited and tense up. I have to maintain better positioning because it can't flex and forgive my errors.

Also sounds better acoustically to my ears.

**MarkRhodes** · 02-08-2015, 10:51 AM

Switching gears to WHAT one plays.
JC said last year that he expected to have something out on picking (-exercises, patterns, whatever) in October, but that didn't happen. Either that or he didn't mention it to us, which I doubt. (In any case, I'll send him an email about it.)

Meanwhile, I'm using some "daily calisthenics" from David Baker's book "The Bebop Era, volume 1." The exercises are meant to teach one how to handle eight-note scales (-bebop scales). They're very good at that. They're good to play as fast as one can because such phrases were used by bebop players.

It's a new year and I'm going to record more. Either I will sound pretty good and kind people will say, 'good dog,' or else I will sound bad and tactful people will say, 'okay, here's where you've gone wrong but don't take it so hard, this can be fixed and you'll be fine.'

destinytot · 02-08-2015, 11:19 AM

Switching gears to WHAT one plays.

I'm working on making the connection between naming notes and fretting (lead) hand a reflex response.

Technique is only a means to an end.

**M-ster** · 02-08-2015, 04:16 PM

Thanks, destiny.

**MarkRhodes** · 02-08-2015, 08:09 PM

Harold Bloom, lit prof at Yale, wrote "The Anxiety of Influence." I've enjoyed several of his books but not so much that one. (But in the context of this discussion, I agree with the point you are making.)

(More later. I'm making this post while watching the video, lest I forget....)

**MarkRhodes** · 02-08-2015, 08:26 PM

"Take a look at these hands!" Man, I hadn't thought of "Mr. Byrne" and Talking Heads for a long time, but I played their first four-five records many, many times.

I liked the camera angle of the video, showing how you grip the pick. It's great to see things from the under side. I agree that it is the rear end of the index finger's top joint that is where the main contact is made. I also liked the image of how the tip of the thumb and index are, so to speak, opening away from the pick.

Now I need to practice and see how what I see compares with what I just saw you doing.....

destinytot · 02-09-2015, 05:07 PM

"Take a look at these hands!" Man, I hadn't thought of "Mr. Byrne" and Talking Heads for a long time, but I played their first four-five records many, many times.

Thanks for watching all the way through!

**MarkRhodes** · 02-09-2015, 08:29 PM

Hey, guys,
I wrote to JC and heard back. Something's in the works that is aimed at other players too, not just guitarists, but he added this joyful tidbit:

>>>>I was also just thinking about doing a brief quick advanced fine -tuning
video and share that around for free, and will let you know when I have
that, and am aiming for it either this week or next.<<<<<

I told him that was great news and I can't wait. Stay tuned! Or as the gospel song goes, "Get all excited, tell everybody..."

(Soon as I hear more from JC, I'll post word here.)

destinytot · 02-10-2015, 10:18 AM

Harold Bloom, lit prof at Yale, wrote "The Anxiety of Influence." I've enjoyed several of his books but not so much that one. (But in the context of this discussion, I agree with the point you are making.)

Impressive and well-spotted catch there, Mark! (Excuse my flattery, but this not the first time I've noticed how well-read you are.)

As I tried to point out in the video, "The Anxiety of Influence" came to my attention thanks to a great post by Mr. Beaumont (for which, thanks again, Mr. B! - in the thread Quick Thoughts on Learning to Improvise.

I don't know how to link to it, so I'm taking the liberty of copying and pasting Mr. B's post plus my comment:

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

It's the "anxiety of influence." Like an arc... you try and sound like your idols, you sound like your idols, you actively try not to sound like your idols, you accept your influences and the real you finally comes out...

Excellent post and an idea worth exploring. (Wikipedia led me to this short summary of the 'Six Revisionary Ratios' posited by Harold Bloom in "The Anxiety of Influence: A Theory of Poetry": Harold Bloom's "Anxiety of Influence" - Review by Dan Geddes)

I'm reminded of a quote from David Mamet's RED BELT (2008), "Turn to the side. Everything has a force. You embrace it or deflect it. Why oppose it?" This helps me remember that, wonderful as the guitar is in the hands of the greats, this instrument is only one of many means for conveying the beauty of music...

Time to fiendishly copy the phrasing of my favourite singers, to purloin pretty lines from trumpet and flute, and to embrace the influence of my guitar heroes by 'punctuating' with chords. Tally-ho!

destinytot · 02-10-2015, 10:55 AM

Switching gears to WHAT one plays.

For me, Sean Levitt's lines are sublime - I long to be able to play and interact that way - but I'm giving some attention to these two Benson solos:

**Stu Foley** · 02-12-2015, 07:58 AM

Have all you Benson picking converts got the 'rest stroke' thing down? The more I find out about it the more it seems to be a major part of the technique. How did you do it? and how long did it take you?

It is quite a switch because I was always told to make the most miniscule movements with the tip of the pick- the rest stroke technique requires you to use the adjacent string as a trampoline!

destinytot · 02-12-2015, 10:38 AM

I like that trampoline analogy!

I haven't used the term 'rest stroke' before, but I'm inclined to agree that it's an integral part of this technique; my pick certainly 'rests' and 'rebounds off' adjacent strings as I alternate pick.

My pick also 'sweeps' when moving from one string to another; if the pick is already going down, I continue with a downstroke of the pick - and if going up, I continue with an upstroke.

I tend to alternate pick lines and 'sweep' arpeggios, and I find the concept of 'rest stroke' to be an important element of both - especially with a heavier pick, which I've been practising with this week ('allowing' the thumb and forefinger to steer the dynamics on down and upstrokes respectively).

destinytot · 02-13-2015, 11:13 AM

This may be a little off the deep end, but I think it's an idea that's worth sharing because it's helping me make progress. 'Gesturing'. Has anyone tried it? (And I don't mean Air Guitar...)

I saw it on a Joe Diorio video years ago but hadn't applied until today.

After watching Perry Hughes, who seems to remain perfectly relaxed at even the most formidable tempos, I tried to join in... (unsurprisingly,) I couldn't get started.

So I started looking more closely at why I'm unable to play coherent lines at speed. I'm finding that physical tension is no longer the main obstacle to playing fast lines.

As I believe the 'whole person' plays the guitar (not just the body), I see the problem as being primarily in the mind. (As Eloise Ristad puts it in A Soprano on her Head, "it's as if someone bumped your mental checkerboard and sent all the pieces flying.")

And I don't think the solution lies in slow practice, but in being (first) mentally at ease at those formidably fast tempos.

Now that I've tried it, I find Joe Diorio's 'gesturing' to be a great complement to this picking technique because it offers a way of 'relaxing' into those fast tempos.

**MarkRhodes** · 02-13-2015, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by destinytot

This may be a little off the deep end, but I think it's an idea that's worth sharing because it's helping me make progress. 'Gesturing'. Has anyone tried it? (And I don't mean Air Guitar...)

I saw it on a Joe Diorio video years ago but hadn't applied until today.

After watching Perry Hughes, who seems to remain perfectly relaxed at even the most formidable tempos, I tried to join in... (unsurprisingly,) I couldn't get started.

Now that I've tried it, I find Joe Diorio's 'gesturing' to be a great complement to this picking technique because it offers a way of 'relaxing' into those fast tempos.

For those of us who haven't seen that Joe Diorio video, what does "gesturing" mean here?

destinytot · 02-13-2015, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by MarkRhodes

For those of us who haven't seen that Joe Diorio video, what does "gesturing" mean here?

"Letting go, feeling your way up and down the neck, checking out the possibilities. This usually starts out being abstract and works its way into more melodic playing. Plus the bonus of creating new ideas for future use. Maybe a new melody or a new chord progression. Here the basic idea is to shut off the thinking process and let your fingers and your feeling or intuition take over."
From https://www.visionmusic.com/diorio/rightbrain.html

destinytot · 02-21-2015, 03:42 PM

Looking forward to trying out D'Andrea Pro Plec 351s (from this European supplier - minimum order seems to be 5 picks D'Andrea - Pro Plec 351 :: Pro-Plec :: D'Andrea :: Picks :: Accessories :: Banzai Music GmbH).

**Groyniad** · 02-21-2015, 04:14 PM

counting only the first beat of the bar - certainly not 2 and 4 which is what i do at 'normal' tempos - helps to keep you feeling centered and relaxed when the tempo gets up. you can feel kind of slow and calm inside doing this, even when you're spitting out the 8ths and really digging in with the pick.

**MarkRhodes** · 02-21-2015, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by destinytot

Looking forward to trying out D'Andrea Pro Plec 351s (from this European supplier - minimum order seems to be 5 picks D'Andrea - Pro Plec 351 :: Pro-Plec :: D'Andrea :: Picks :: Accessories :: Banzai Music GmbH).

That's what I'm using now. They are slightly smaller than Fender Mediums. Thicker, yes, but smaller. That little difference in size makes a big difference to me. I like them a lot.

I get them from Amazon, six to a pack.

**monk** · 02-21-2015, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by MarkRhodes

For those of us who haven't seen that Joe Diorio video, what does "gesturing" mean here?

Joe was also a painter. Gesture drawing is something that is practiced by artists and painters to convey movement in a drawing or painting. Joe talked about this quite a bit when I was at GIT.

Scroll down the page on this link for a much better explanation.
Gesture Drawing Lesson of Figures and Objects - Fine Art Instruction, Nancy Doyle Fine Art

**ecj** · 02-21-2015, 05:59 PM

Damn, check out Perry Hughes' solo on this one:

He has a slightly different permutation from what I've seen before. Looks like his hand is rolled down more, there's more finger motion. He also holds the pick more with the pad of his thumb than towards the end like JC Stylles, and he has a pretty straight thumb. The pick angle against the string looks flatter, and he's using the round part of the pick not the point like Metheny. Definitely a pretty thin pick, maybe even thinner than a medium, based on the way the light cuts through it.

He definitely nails that brighter, almost acoustic Benson sound.

destinytot · 02-23-2015, 05:49 AM

Originally Posted by MarkRhodes

That's what I'm using now. They are slightly smaller than Fender Mediums. Thicker, yes, but smaller. That little difference in size makes a big difference to me. I like them a lot.

I get them from Amazon, six to a pack.

I tried them, but they don't ship to Europe. The only other Europe-based supplier I could find has a minimum order of 20.

**Groyniad** · 02-23-2015, 08:48 AM

Originally Posted by ecj

Damn, check out Perry Hughes' solo on this one:

He has a slightly different permutation from what I've seen before. Looks like his hand is rolled down more, there's more finger motion. He also holds the pick more with the pad of his thumb than towards the end like JC Stylles, and he has a pretty straight thumb. The pick angle against the string looks flatter, and he's using the round part of the pick not the point like Metheny. Definitely a pretty thin pick, maybe even thinner than a medium, based on the way the light cuts through it.

He definitely nails that brighter, almost acoustic Benson sound.

i've been just blown away with this particular clip for some time now. (one of my favourite high tempo tunes too - good old Doris)

the great thing - it seems to me - is that his technique allows him to sound fluid and not choppy at this tempo - despite articulating almost everything

without that fluidity up-tempo guitar playing just sounds harsh and ugly to me (almost always) - which is a downer when you've spent SO long doing it and trying to get better at it