Benson Picking technique on Gibson L5 Wesmo

[Groyniad]

here's some more - phew

brightish

and this should settle some old questions - since its by far the brightest playing we've had from a true benson picker - and a) it has the feel in abundance (contrast with joe pass playing with oscar) b) clearly could not be done without that right hand technique

[nunocpinto]

I hear it but see nothing. (I saw and heard the previous thing you posted---G B playing that descending G scale.)

Please make a short video where you very slowly give an example of left-hand muting. And explain it.

Unless you just mean 'release pressure on every fretted note as soon as you strike it.' Easier said than done, but if that's what you're saying, there's no need for a video of George or anyone else.

Mark, that's precisely what i am saying 'release pressure on every fretted note as soon as you strike it.' that is the benson muting and that's why is playing is so clean. Sure you wont need a video from me, specially when you have George ones i posted were he does that all the time, and thats why i posted them in the first place.

Those two solo videos from Perry have lot's of great left hand muting also.

Try it; with just a simple scale or a melodic fragment, and you will see what it's all about. The right hand strikes the string and the left controls the output. Like when a drummer plays a cymbal and mutes it right after with the left hand.

[Nabil B]

I've experienced a bit with left hand muting and I've yet to find a way to lift my finger from the low strings without making them ring a little. On another note, as others have pointed, it's like the hands have to be re-coordinated when learning this technique. I'm thinking about doing strictly technical exercises to sort that out, which I haven't done in a long time.

[nunocpinto]

I've experienced a bit with left hand muting and I've yet to find a way to lift my finger from the low strings without making them ring a little. On another note, as others have pointed, it's like the hands have to be re-coordinated when learning this technique. I'm thinking about doing strictly technical exercises to sort that out, which I haven't done in a long time.

Professor Jones, it's easy on any string, maybe you have not a clear picture of what to do.

You don't lift the finger from the string, you release the pressure from the fret but you keep the finger on the string making it impossible to ring. that's the mute!

[AlainJazz]

I'm making loads of progress on the single line front. Comping chords work really well too. What I'm having a lot of trouble with is fast strumming for more funky tunes. The rhythm is more in the pocket than ever but I constantly have the feeling the pick is going to drop out of my hand. If I grip it harder, that makes the problem worse. Any advice?

[Groyniad]

I'm making loads of progress on the single line front. Comping chords work really well too. What I'm having a lot of trouble with is fast strumming for more funky tunes. The rhythm is more in the pocket than ever but I constantly have the feeling the pick is going to drop out of my hand. If I grip it harder, that makes the problem worse. Any advice?

are you letting your wrist break (sort of fall away from the guitar - a bit like the distinctive classical hand position)?

that gives you a different angle of attack to the strings

also it the pick is tilted when the wrist is allowed to break so that the top part of the pick is closer to the headstock than the tip - this makes it easier to get the lovely light brush off the strings that enables you to strum very fast and keep a soft sound

[destinytot]

[3625]

Last post ( with yet another video with George) emphasizing the importance of free strokes + left hand muting (and also the flex & follow trough) as the basis of Benson picking and not the rest strokes on every down stroke.

https://mega.co.nz/#!B0kGGZIT!tHnsqT...IbuDtOgCC2VBJ4

I watched the vid (on windows media player it was sound only, but on vlc player the picture was there also).

nunocpinto - after watching that vid I can see how there could be differing opinions on this.

This is how I interpret it: he's using free stroke when he plays the ascending major scale slowly at 0.48 - but - that's when he's talking about how playing vertically doesn't work for him. It's like he's exaggerating the point of what he doesn't do.

Whereas, when he demonstrates playing across the neck/horizontally, where he's saying 'now this is what I do' (paraphrase) it's pretty clear to my eyes he's using rest strokes, such as where he plays at 1:23 - in particular look at that big fat rest stroke he does on that low Ab at 1:27!

Good video in terms of a well shot close up of George's right hand - I'm going to study it more in depth in order to get a better idea of George's pick grip and wrist movement etc. Thanks.

[MarkRhodes]

In my head I hear a voice repeating, "Put the clicker down, Mark. Pick up the guitar, Mark."

I love you guys but I am taking a rest from reading anything to do with rest strokes, pick flex, or left hand muting. Whenever those words pop into my awareness, I'll go straight to my guitar and play. I think a lot of this stuff works itself out in the playing.

My big exercise today is playing one note in sixteenths for a minute. (I use a timer.) Started slow (80 bpm) and stopped at 140. It's tiring but there's something about playing one note for a minute that makes everything but the pick stroke leave my awareness. Rest strokes and muting are not germane here. (It's more like JC's "shake.") I do that for a few minutes, then play lines for five minutes. Not fast, not racing, just smooth and solid. Then another few minutes of tremolo. And not ascending tremolo lines, either. Just one note. Usually on the fifth fret but I move around. Use the low E sometimes too. (Have a hard time playing tremolo notes on the low E for sixty seconds at a brisk tempo. I think the G and B strings are my favorite ones to play tremolo on.)

[nunocpinto]

I watched the vid (on windows media player it was sound only, but on vlc player the picture was there also).

nunocpinto - after watching that vid I can see how there could be differing opinions on this.

This is how I interpret it: he's using free stroke when he plays the ascending major scale slowly at 0.48 - but - that's when he's talking about how playing vertically doesn't work for him. It's like he's exaggerating the point of what he doesn't do.

Whereas, when he demonstrates playing across the neck/horizontally, where he's saying 'now this is what I do' (paraphrase) it's pretty clear to my eyes he's using rest strokes, such as where he plays at 1:23 - in particular look at that big fat rest stroke he does on that low Ab at 1:27!

Good video in terms of a well shot close up of George's right hand - I'm going to study it more in depth in order to get a better idea of George's pick grip and wrist movement etc. Thanks.

3625, i have posted 2 more videos: Check those out two. Regarding the third: yes, he does a big rest stroke on the E string at the end of the scale. But not anywhere else. it's an illusion.

[ecj]

I'm making loads of progress on the single line front. Comping chords work really well too. What I'm having a lot of trouble with is fast strumming for more funky tunes. The rhythm is more in the pocket than ever but I constantly have the feeling the pick is going to drop out of my hand. If I grip it harder, that makes the problem worse. Any advice?

Hey Alain - I had the same problem at first. I play gigs with this singer who likes really fast strummy funk stuff, and the first rehearsal we had where I tried Benson picking my pick went flying across the room. I think I've figured it out. I'll try to explain what I do.

I noticed that Benson does a really exaggerated movement with his hand when he does descending sweeps where he rotates his whole forearm so that the top of his hand turns up until it's facing almost skyward. He also does that when he's strumming octaves.

So, I tried playing with that slowly. Strum down probably the way you already are, then when you go for the up strum trying rotating your forearm like that. It ends up letting the pick brush the strings rather than striking them with the pointy bit. You'll notice if you watch vids of Benson playing octaves and strumming that his fingers tend not to rest on the pick guard while he's doing it, and his whole forearm and hand really get cranking back and forth doing that twisty motion.

I think I did it a little big at the end of the long vid I made for Mark a while ago (if you skip to almost the very end) if you want to see. Now I can strum without worrying about the grip so much.

[ecj]

3625, i have posted 2 more videos: Check those out two. Regarding the third: yes, he does a big rest stroke on the E string at the end of the scale. But not anywhere else. it's an illusion.

Hey nuno - we're not going to agree on this, I guess, so this is the last I'll say about it. Just downloaded and watched all your vids at the slowest possible speed.

I'm seeing rest strokes. Whenever he plays fast, I'm seeing rest strokes. I don't see a single instance of him crossing a string with an upstroke, except for when he is demonstrating what he "can't do" early in the clips.

Others are free to make up their own minds, and I don't think you have to do rest strokes. JC Stylles doesn't look like he generally uses rest strokes. But I can't see how anyone can watch that vid and not see that Benson is doing exactly that.

3625 - thanks for the VLC rec. Waaaay better than quicktime!

[AlainJazz]

Hey Groyniad and ecj, thanks very much for the advice. I'm going to try that and report back.

[AlainJazz]

ECJ, so when you do the hand pointing up on the up stroke, is it more the side of the pick that strikes the strings? You are right, the down stroke the way I'm doing right now, is fine. It is the upstroke that "loosens" the pick out of my grip. If I try what you wrote, it seems to kind of work(I need to practice it a bit) but on the up stroke it is more the side of the pick that strikes the strings rather than the tip end. Is that right?

[destinytot]

Glad that the pain's gone, fm42. I had lessons in the Alexander Technique for a number of years, and I see relaxation as a skill.

PS On kinaesthetic awareness:

[destinytot]

Thanks Groyniad,

The video is great.

+1
More grist to the mill...
screenshots of GB's right hand:

and a close-up video of Perry Hughes's right hand at full, half and one quarter speed: https://mega.co.nz/#!XQElma4R!aG-eHy...grqRr4qWkBsUWs

[Groyniad]

fantastic pic of benson's hand - best i've seen - and i've been looking hard

and i don't know how you did that thing with the glorious monster perry solo - but its great

thanks!

yep - i'm in Scotland - formerly Louisiana

[ecj]

ECJ, so when you do the hand pointing up on the up stroke, is it more the side of the pick that strikes the strings? You are right, the down stroke the way I'm doing right now, is fine. It is the upstroke that "loosens" the pick out of my grip. If I try what you wrote, it seems to kind of work(I need to practice it a bit) but on the up stroke it is more the side of the pick that strikes the strings rather than the tip end. Is that right?

Yes, absolutely. It ends up being the side of the pick. It's like your forearms is moving and dragging the pick with it. Maybe it's the same motion that a violinist uses to bow? It kind of looks like that.

That seems to be the best motion for me for strumming. When it gets going right it feels very loose and funky.

[fm42]

yep - i'm in Scotland - formerly Louisiana

Wellcome to the lovely weather.
I'm in Ireland

[nunocpinto]

Hey nuno - we're not going to agree on this, I guess, so this is the last I'll say about it. Just downloaded and watched all your vids at the slowest possible speed.

I'm seeing rest strokes. Whenever he plays fast, I'm seeing rest strokes. I don't see a single instance of him crossing a string with an upstroke, except for when he is demonstrating what he "can't do" early in the clips.

Others are free to make up their own minds, and I don't think you have to do rest strokes. JC Stylles doesn't look like he generally uses rest strokes. But I can't see how anyone can watch that vid and not see that Benson is doing exactly that.

3625 - thanks for the VLC rec. Waaaay better than quicktime!

ejc, i understand that you are trying to support your claim, but unfortunately it's not true. But that's leave it at that; time will tell; and the videos will be here for anybody that might need them to draw conclusions about this issue.

[Groyniad]

“To expect too much is to have a sentimental view of life and this is a softness that ends in bitterness.” Flannery O'Connor, American author (1925-2964)

this is really heavy by the way! expecting too little is a cynical view of life and this is a hardness that starts with bitterness!

[Groyniad]

the most important thing i've been trying to stress - a thing that makes all the difference to the way the two techniques FEEL is this:

with traditional picking the player is trying to do something (produce an even tonal response across a line, and to articulate effectively)

with benson picking the player is trying to let something happen

(something very delicate and easily missed - something that will not happen if the pick isn't clamped effectively, if the wrist isn't allowed to break (naturally - not pushed into an odd position), if the player persists in forcing things and doesn't allow a free floating wrist to do it for him (philco's original insight)

its a bit trippy really (if i can put it in that rather old fashioned way) - i'm playing away and it starts well but gets worse, then i remember to stop TRYING to play the notes and to let a certain motion in my wrist together with the flex of the pick do it for me, and suddenly the facility re-appears - like a blessing.

so its about trying not to try (learning to try not to try?) - after a while, not trying to do something but letting something happen instead, will become second nature.

that might be quite pleasant (i think its pleasant for perry and george)

[destinytot]

so its about trying not to try (learning to try not to try?) - after a while, not trying to do something but letting something happen instead, will become second nature.

Wu wei - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Groyniad]

cool Chinese philosophy reference destinytot

but

they stress non-action - the concept i need is that of letting something happen - that's not the same as doing something, and its not the same as having something happen to you either

to let something happen is not passive like being tripped up; its not active like tripping someone up

letting the children go out with their friends when they want to - letting someone finish what they are saying before replying - letting a heavy load you've been carrying fall to the ground - letting yourself cry when you're really upset - these things aren't just things that happen to you, and neither are they things you do (cool)

we're talking about letting the pick - in conjunction with a movement you initiate but do not straightforwardly execute in your wrist - produce the sound

you initiate the movement in the wrist but its a kind of free-swinging that you initiate - and that's not a movement you perform

[ecj]

Okay, you guys are going off the deep end :-)

You still have to actually pick the strings and fret the notes.