Benson Picking technique on Gibson L5 Wesmo

[AlainJazz]

I think it would help if you could show us a picture or a short video.

I signed up for a month of JC's coaching and I'm going to have to fine-tune a few things, so I'll be making one too. Over time, a series of photos / short vids will provide you with a record of your evolution in learning this.

As for the straight index, it's not the whole finger. And it's not really straight, per se. The point is that the thumb pushes against the index, so the index doesn't curl / curve in. That's my take.

Thanks, I will post a pic as soon as I get a chance. Now, I have to admit that I didn't go into this taking it really seriously since I have made a few attempts in the past at benson picking and it always felt very awkward. Not this time. In fact it almost feels more natural than my usual picking technique and I can already see that it is going to be worth sticking with for a while.
Is anyone picking like this using round wounds? I just tried it this evening and couldn't stand the "scratching" sound. It would be nice if I could find some way to make it work so that I could use the technique even when playing my strat. Just curious.

[edh]

It has been mentioned(here or somewhere else) that some(or all?) have changed picks to a fender medium. I have been using Stubby 2.0 picks. Will there be some sort of problem that will develop if I continue to use this pick?

Why did some change to the fender medium pick?

thanks all.
edh

[MarkRhodes]

It has been mentioned(here or somewhere else) that some(or all?) have changed picks to a fender medium. I have been using Stubby 2.0 picks. Will there be some sort of problem that will develop if I continue to use this pick?

Why did some change to the fender medium pick?

The main reason a lot of guys playing this way use a Fender Medium (-the brown one) is that they like the sound it gives. Most everyone I've talked to who uses this approach s wants a pick with some give in it, but not too much. The Fender Medium seems ideal in that sense. (And they're cheap and easy to find....) That said, Philco has confessed to being a "pick slut" who will try anything....

[edh]

@Mark, so using a Stubby won't hinder my playing down the road using the GB style? There is not any give in the Stubby.

Thanks for responding so quickly Mark.
edh

[setemupjoe]

@Mark, so using a Stubby won't hinder my playing down the road using the GB style? There is not any give in the Stubby.

Thanks for responding so quickly Mark.
edh

I would at least try a fender medium to understand the feel of that pick with this method. Having some give in the pick is important. When I play with a heavy pick the tone and the technique suffer.
You push through the string and come to rest on the string below it. A flexible pick has some give and makes it easier to do that. A heavy pick doesn't allow for that and forces the pick over the top of the string.

[MarkRhodes]

@Mark, so using a Stubby won't hinder my playing down the road using the GB style? There is not any give in the Stubby.

I'm not the best person to answer that. I'm off to a "pretty good start" with this (-according to JC Stylles) but not in a position to offer advice about picks. I think what setemupjoe says about this should be given much more consideration than anything I might say! He's been doing this far longer and is much better at it than I!

[MarkRhodes]

Okay, guys, yesterday I sent JC a 2-minute video of "what I'm up to" for his assessment. I heard back from him this morning. He said I've made a pretty good start and that I have got the basic shape pretty good too. Glad to hear that! He mentioned several finer points that he wants me to work on in the coming month and invited me to send another video in two weeks---by which point there should be marked improvement if I do what he suggests---and then another at the end of the month.

I'm psyched about that. I thought his comments were generous, encouraging, but by no means blowing smoke. I've got serious work to do yet. That, I don't mind.

[Nabil B]

Mark : glad to hear that you're on the right track, have you started implementing the changes to your technique ? Do you already feel some improvement ?


BTW, I kept referring to philco's video in my posts when in fact I was thinking about setemupjoe's video :

Very helpful vid !

[MarkRhodes]

I just posted this in the solo guitar thread, but I'm taking the liberty of also posting it here because there's a point at which I consciously switched picking technique - at 4m20s:

I like the result and I intend to develop it, working on advice in the Three Finger thread.

BTW, it was recorded on a phone. The voice is unamplified but the archtop is going through a little practice amp, though I wish I hadn't bothered. (I also wish I hadn't messed up the changes, but there it is.)

Nice work! Great tune. I couldn't see your hand distinctly as I would have liked but I enjoyed what I heard. And your voice! Great for this type of tune. I'm jealous!

[MarkRhodes]

Mark : glad to hear that you're on the right track, have you started implementing the changes to your technique ? Do you already feel some improvement ?


BTW, I kept referring to philco's video in my posts when in fact I was thinking about setemupjoe's video :

Very helpful vid !

Yes, Mark Cally (aka setemupjoe) knows his stuff and it shows.

As for me, I'm implementing the changes. As JC says, it takes a while to grow into certain things. For example, he wants my pinky and ring fingers to curl in more, but suggests it will take awhile for the ring finger to curl in as much as needed. But don't rush. Give it the time it takes... So that's what I'm doing. I spread my practices out across the day too, so I actually pick up the guitar four or five different times a day, and I keep a pick in my pocket for when I'm out and about. I actually take a pick to bed with me and hold it as I fall asleep.

[ecj]

I just posted this in the solo guitar thread, but I'm taking the liberty of also posting it here because there's a point at which I consciously switched picking technique - at 4m20s:

Nice playing, destinytot. I couldn't really see your hand, but could hear when you switched techs.

[MarkRhodes]

Hey, Mark C / setemupjoe,
One of the things JC told me to work on is something you do in your vid: talk about how the side of the curled pinky is what touches the pickguard. I wasn't curling my pinky in (at least not consistently) and now when I do, that's exactly what happens. I can tell when I've been playing for awhile when that little spot starts to overheat!

It's amazing what a small change can do....

[Nabil B]

I have a quick question : which part of the hand should be touching the guitar ? This seems like an important point because it determines how you anchor your hand, which has a great effect on the picking motion. What I always did was having the interior part of my hand just above the wrist articulation rest just behind the bridge. Then when I re-watched setemupjoe's video, I noticed that he mentions that he has his pinky finger resting on the pickguard, and his wrist isn't touching the guitar at all. That intrigued me so I watched several videos of George Benson, and he does exactly the same thing. How do you guys do it ? Anchoring with the pinky seems to facilitate the up and down motion of the thumb and the index, which in turn allows you to pick with less wrist motion.


Edit : Mark, I saw your message after I posted mine. As we say in french "les grands esprits se rencontrent"

[MarkRhodes]

I have a quick question : which part of the hand should be touching the guitar ? This seems like an important point because it determines how you anchor your hand, which has a great effect on the picking motion. What I always did was having the interior part of my hand just above the wrist articulation rest just behind the bridge. Then when I re-watched setemupjoe's video, I noticed that he mentions that he has his pinky finger resting on the pickguard, and his wrist isn't touching the guitar at all. That intrigued me so I watched several videos of George Benson, and he does exactly the same thing. How do you guys do it ? Anchoring with the pinky seems to facilitate the up and down motion of the thumb and the index, which in turn allows you to pick with less wrist motion.


Edit : Mark, I saw your message after I posted mine. As we say in french "les grands esprits se rencontrent"

It seems to happen of itself if you curl the index in some. (JC Stylles thinks that, for most players, it takes a while to feel comfortable with this, so your hand sort of grows into the shape.) For awhile, I had the tip of my pinky as an anchor, though it's not an anchor in the traditional sense because it moves easily. (Unlike, say, anchoring with the side of the hand on the bridge, which is what I used to do; that's a fixed anchor.) But now, it's that bit of the pinky that is touching the guitar but it's not like I'm pressing down on it. It seems to stabilize my hand and keep me from moving too much while not restricting any needed movement at all. My 2 cents. I want to hear from Mark C / setemupjoe on this too!

[setemupjoe]

Hi guys,
It seems you are on the right track. I remember when I started with this technique some 20 years ago I experimented with how to place my pinkie. Straight or curled? Everything felt awkward to me at the beginning. Curling the pinkie allows the last knuckle of the pinkie (closest to the fingertip) to become a type of fulcrum that the hand can use as a reference point. As I say in my video it's not tied down to any one spot on the pickguard.
My main suggestion is to play lines SLOWLY across all six strings to get a feel for how the hand stretches and retracts across the strings. Don't think about speed. This isn't about speed, it's about accuracy. Playing fast is only a byproduct of learning to play accurately.

[Patrick2]

[QUOTE=setemupjoe;440962]Hi guys,
It seems you are on the right track. I remember when I started with this technique some 20 years ago I experimented with how to place my pinkie. Straight or curled? Everything felt awkward to me at the beginning. Curling the pinkie allows the last knuckle of the pinkie (closest to the fingertip) to become a type of fulcrum that the hand can use as a reference point. As I say in my video it's not tied down to any one spot on the pickguard.
My main suggestion is to play lines SLOWLY across all six strings to get a feel for how the hand stretches and retracts across the strings.

Don't think about speed. This isn't about speed, it's about accuracy. Playing fast is only a byproduct of learning to play accurately.

If I were to quote Emeril Lagasse, I'd have the say . . . "BAM!!"

Your presence here is causing me great pain. I am "disagreeable" by nature. I've yet to find anything, in any of your posts that I can disagree with. Please, keep trying for me.

But, in all seriousness, I really appreciate your presence here.

[MarkRhodes]

Hi guys,
It seems you are on the right track. I remember when I started with this technique some 20 years ago I experimented with how to place my pinkie. Straight or curled? Everything felt awkward to me at the beginning. Curling the pinkie allows the last knuckle of the pinkie (closest to the fingertip) to become a type of fulcrum that the hand can use as a reference point. As I say in my video it's not tied down to any one spot on the pickguard.
My main suggestion is to play lines SLOWLY across all six strings to get a feel for how the hand stretches and retracts across the strings. Don't think about speed. This isn't about speed, it's about accuracy. Playing fast is only a byproduct of learning to play accurately.

Thanks, Mark.
I remember maybe twenty years ago when my technique was sloppy and I didn't know what to do, I bought a video about picking. I can't remember who made it but one of the exercises was to play a two-octave major scale in C, starting at the 8th fret, but play each note four time (-tremolo; 16th notes). The idea was to repeat this all the way down to the nut and back (-C major, then B, then Bb, and so on down to F, then fret by fret back to C.) It's one of the exercises I've used this week because it makes me play on all six strings. Also, tremolo picking is great for getting that "shake" thing going.

I've made some improvement and hope for more.


By the way, Mark, what about your second (or ring) finger? Do you curl it in as much as the pinky?

[AlainJazz]

Anybody use this technique with round wound strings?

[setemupjoe]

By the way, Mark, what about your second (or ring) finger? Do you curl it in as much as the pinky?[/QUOTE]

I think I explained this in my video so you may want to check back on that. Your fingers should curl in naturally. If you place your hand palm up in your lap and relax your hand your fingers should naturally curl in a little. That's how your hand should look resting on the pickguard.

[MarkRhodes]

I think I explained this in my video so you may want to check back on that. Your fingers should curl in naturally. If you place your hand palm up in your lap and relax your hand your fingers should naturally curl in a little. That's how your hand should look resting on the pickguard.

Well, in two weeks I'll make another video for JC and we'll see if he thinks I've got it curled in enough. Perhaps I misunderstand him, but my sense is that he wants more curl than occurs naturally. In fact, in his tutorial he says it will take time to get it. So he suggests a player first curl in the pinky, then the ring finger.... It could be that your "natural" curl would only be natural for someone else after a bit of work. Also, he wants the second finger (the one next to the index) to remain out more---my initial tendency was for all three of those fingers to curl in. It will take me awhile to be able to curl in the ring finger without curling in the second one alongside it. One day at a time....

[AlainJazz]

Anybody use this technique with round wound strings?

Anyone?

Also what are your thoughts concerning alternate versus economy picking while using this technique.

[ecj]

Anyone?

Also what are your thoughts concerning alternate versus economy picking while using this technique.

I don't play roundwounds on my main guitar, but I don't really have a problem playing on them while browsing at guitar stores. You just have to reduce the angle of the pick attack, otherwise you just get horrible scrapey sounds.

I'm not sure why anyone is worried about this. Most shredders angle their picks as much as Benson does, just in the opposite direction. Benson picking on roundwounds just produces the "heavy metal scrape", which I hate. It's pretty easy to just change the attack angle a bit to get a clearer tone.

I have no problem alt picking or gypsy picking with this tech. I've never learned economy picking on descending scales or arpeggios, but Dan Wilson seems to have no problem with it.

[fep]

I use it with round wound strings and I use it with my acoustic dreadnought. I can change the angle of my pick by either the position of my arm or how much I bend my thumb, that is how I adjust to round wound strings..

[AlainJazz]

Ok. Good to know that rounds can work too. Thanks!

[AlainJazz]

Hey Myles, that sounds great! Very nice playing too. So, obviously it is possible to get a good non-scratchy tone. I have to experiment a bit with the pick angle I guess. Thanks for posting the clip.