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Originally Posted by cjm
They don't say "Top Rock Guitarists"? Well, even if they don't, it's understood.
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11-25-2011 05:08 PM
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The Grateful Dead albums suck by their own admission. Their (mostly good sound quality) live soundboard recordings are where the meat is, and the internet age has made them much more accessible than they used to be. Garcia was a very unusual player in the rock idiom, in terms of emphasizing tone and melody over flash and effects. Originally Posted by Banksia
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Charlie Christian almost single handedly popularized the electric guitar as a solo instrument. He was also, arguably, the first guitar hero. Now, let's add to that the guy was "instrumental" in the invention of bebop, which almost all moden jazz is derived from, and IMO, any list like this which DOESN'T have Christian at or near the top is ignorant at best.
And this opinion comes from a former metal dude.
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If it weren't for charlie, there just might not be any t bone walker, which means there might not be a jimi hendrix.
Don't mess with the space-time continuum.
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It might also be said that Dr.Timothy Leary was nearly as important. Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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i thought of this too and totally agree. you just have to keep reminding people of this one... Originally Posted by EightString
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Originally Posted by cjm
It might also be said that Dr.Timothy Leary was nearly as important.
to Hendrix you mean? there may be something to that. he was a very irresponsible "doctor".
how did Garcia, Hendrix, and Jim Morrison die again?
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I think the technical term for what he was is "effing nuts," but... Originally Posted by fumblefingers
Some people attribute a "burst in creativity" during that era to "consciousness expanding" chemicals.
May be.
However, I maintain that it mostly sounded like crap if it tried to be music, and looked like crap in painting and sculpture.
Jurassic Me, I guess.Last edited by cjm; 11-25-2011 at 08:34 PM.
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I had the good fortune to see that particular article at my son-in-law's house today and my first reaction was "AAAAARRRRRGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!". My second reaction was "You have got to be kidding!" My third reaction was "No freakin' way!!". Sorry, but I'm not trying to being a musical snob here, but I just couldn't believe who they picked as the greatest guitarists of all time. Of all time??? Where's George Van Eps? Where's Charlie Christian? Where's Jim Hall? Where's Les Paul?? Where's Johnny Smith? Where's ----ah, you guys get the message. I couldn't believe that somebody chose Link Wray. That guy was terrible. When he played whatever song he made famous, he sounded like a kid who learned his first 3 chords. And Curt Cobain? The author even said he was not that good but that he was so influential. More than Les Paul, more than George van Eps? Give me dang break!! Now don't get me wrong. I know a lot of you guys out there are fans of some of those players (and so am I) but let's be realistic here. Jurassic me too.
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I agree with you, hell before I got sick of his stuff I thought Cobain was damn good (but not proficient). It is hard to be original with limited material and damn if he didn't do it. Originally Posted by hot ford coupe
Where they get these polls wrong is putting someone in in the wrong category. Cobain was a writer not a proficient best in class guitar player.
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Just saw this - went and looked up the list at RollingStone.com.
Hendrix was original - in the blues rock area. Someone said, "Hendrix played the blues, but too fast and with way too much fuzz."
Eric Clapton #2? Someone said about him, "Clapton knows every blues cliche ever played."
And where is J. J. Cale? I think he's one of the best.
It's all opinions. Even mine.
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In defense of Hendrix: can you think of any other guitarist from any musical genre that released an album as innovative, revolutionary, and paradigm-shifting - not to mention its top-notch songwriting, provocative lyrics, and mind-altering sonic landscapes - as "Are You Experienced?' That album single-handedly eviscerated pre-existing definitional boundaries of what constituted rock brilliance. Personally I cant think of any guitar-oriented album in league with AYE, whether jazz, country, rock, classical, etc.
Love my Wes, Django, Martino, Hall, Metheney, et al.,......but can't think of any guitar jazz releases that rival AYE in terms of the above qualities. IMHO, that is....Last edited by orasnon; 11-26-2011 at 01:45 AM.
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I just find it amazing that the 100 all time greatest players of the guitar, an instrument which has been around in some form for 1000's of years all happen to fall within a roughly 40 year period!
These sort of lists come out all the time, just have a laugh and move on. The funny thing is, with a few exceptions I think I would have 100 better guitarists as contacts on my phone.
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People do tend to take this too seriously. Its just something fun to stir the pot. I am sure that they do not think publishing the article is really the definitive answer. And of course they are mostly interested in modern rock.
As per Hendrix, besides his great bluesy playing, I love his rhythm guitar work. Inversions not found in any book.... thats silly...but he did have cool ways of playing chords with little pentatonic fills and what not. Definitely I find influential when I play rock chord progressions. There was even some cool stuff I have heard from his unreleased music that did some cool progressions a bit outside of the box.
Plus he almost did end up doing a project with Miles Davis. I wish that would have happened.
I like rock guitarists. But not the over polished shredders (though I respect some of them, like Eric Johnson). I like the guys that have a unique voice. Who play what they feel. And I like noise players. To me, it is somewhat in line with what some of jazz is about, especially more avante garde jazz.
Glad to see Jerry Garcia got some respect here. Especially his playing live in the early 70s. Their music was similar to a lot of fusion at times and bluegrass. I like the solos in the Byrds "8 miles high" I think that was definitely trying to sound like John Coltrane. I love Cobains solo on "In Bloom" as well.
And to me, the guy who nobody has mentioned is Neil Young. Yes. Neil. When I listen to someone like him, or guys that just play beautiful noise solos, I start to feel kind of snobbish and fake for playing too many licks or smooth jazzy lines. I like the whole awkward sloppy approach that is yet somehow still controlled and willful.
Sometimes I think that jazz musicians who play rock sometimes (I'm talking about me) tend to not know how to limit themselves and just be simple and from the heart, or even a little sloppy.
Don't get me wrong, I love throwing in chromatic bebop stuff and making changes and some sophisticated stuff sometimes when I play rock, but sometimes I still think that I can sound too jazzy and play too many major 7s or approach major thirds with that little chromatic b3 grace note and stuff like that etc.
In the end I have to remember to ask myself, what really sounds the best or best serves the music? How do I play guitar in a way that sounds true to me (and not too much like myriads of others) or that is interesting and or unique to listen to, and not just recycling stuff I've learned? How can I be original, edgy, and still musical? How do I blend my love of space in music, with my love of noise and chaos? How do I blend my love of being smooth with my love of being harsh?Last edited by exarctly; 11-26-2011 at 02:52 AM.
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In my opinion, Influential doesn't mean actual talent or contribution to the music itself but more feeding the music industry...
What sells on CD or on signature guitars (ex overrated Slash) is one thing.
How many kids got to learn guitar because they heard Mike Stern?
How many bands can claim to have some kids getting their first guitar for Christmas and by new year's eve being able already to play their music...Nirvana for instance!
Problem also is there was a lot of innovation coming from the late 50s up to the late 70s compared to the latest decades...
In 50 years people will still praise Elvis, The Beatles, Hendrix and so on because they were the pionneers.
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11-26-2011, 08:51 AM #41Nuff Said Guest
"Jimi Hendrix" was the best "Jimi Hendrix" guitarist there was and ever will be.
Nuff
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The truth is, I've been around the sun enough times to know what the Rolling Stone is and I wouldn't actually expect more of it as a rag.
I find it amusing that many discussions here turn to the "closed minds of jazz purists" meme..."Won't accept this as jazz"..."won't accept that rocker as a great player," etc.
But this silly list and article demonstrates that the rock and/or blues crowd does not, by and large, even acknowledge the existence of some one like Charlie Christian as was mentioned above.
For years I've listened to people tell me, "You gotta' listen to Stevie Ray Vaughan!" And, "Hey, do you guys ever do, like, you know, Clapton?"
Well, when jazz guitar players exclude some one from the definition of jazz, that's all they're doing. They are not saying that "______ never picked up a guitar."
And perhaps it's not the "jazz purists" who have the closed minds.
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i've no issue with Hendrix getting all the credit in the world, he changed the instrument, the music and was a major influence on Jazz after 1970.
None of those publications look at things outside of popular names in guitarists, and that's fine. They are looking at pop music, not music as art and both can live together.
If I was to pick the best mainstream or pop music guitarist, Hendrix would win without any competition.
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the difference is that they don't come here, look at your "best jazz players" list and say
"where's hendrix, what a lousy site"
but you look at their list and say" what, no charlie christian? what a rag."
that 's the difference.
it's simple. they are not writing for an audience that is interested in jazz.
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thanks, no wonder you are a teacher. Originally Posted by Jake Hanlon
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You're literally correct, but figuratively wrong in my opinion. Originally Posted by markf
People DO come to the bandstand and ask for Clapton. Last week I was asked for Duane Eddy.
Do you go up to a '60s "cover band" and ask for Monk?
Not likely.
Know any jazzers who try to get booked into a rock festival to play Body and Soul?
But look at the jazz festivals...Remember SRV at Montreaux?
I'm not dumb enough to think that Rolling Stone publishes to a readership knowledgeable about music...but it's a deliberate ignorance.
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People ask for clapton and rock/pop stuff because that is what they know, it is not deliberate ignorance.
Don't forget that most people on this site are outraged because the list excludes JAZZ guitarists. I am sure if any of these members were asked to write a list of the 100 greatest guitarists it would cater to their interests and include players like Wes, Charlie Christian, Django, Freddie Green, Pass, Scofield, Metheny, Benson, Rosenwinkel, Holdsworth, etc... But would players like John Williams, Baden Powell and Tommy Emmanuel be included? they are all equally good players and musicians and have been as influential within their respective genres. Anyone who makes a list like this will be biased towards their own interests, maybe the real problem is the title, although "the 100 most well known and influential guitarists of Rock and Pop music from the second half of the 20th century according to ......." doesn't exactly roll off the tongue.
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Had a dream last night in which the "greatest ever guitarist award" was awarded to Wes Montgomery.
Everyone else came second.
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Personally, I don't care. I don't read Rolling Stone.
Louis Armstrong was once asked how it was to travel around all the time and sometimes - when he didn't bring his own band - be paired with local randomly assembled pick up bands of mediocre quality. He laughed in his hoarse manner and said:"Tell ya what? I don't listen!". I regularly remind myself of that remark both in and outside my professional job.
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11-27-2011, 12:49 PM #50Nuff Said Guest
Its just all about selling magazines, nothing more, give the public majority what they want, what they think they know already. Basic sales technique.
Nuff Said
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