Jazz on a Nylon String Classical

[ronjazz]

Interesting, Ron, that you prefer the lowered action in terms of creating more legato phrasing. I find that it interferes with pull offs, slurs, and hammer on type articulations that help to create the legato feel. Likely a personal preference thing, but I like the 'rebound' of nylon strings in the traditional classical action. With the very low actions I feel like I have to "hammer" the finger board rather than press and release the string. Slows me down. I would add that I feel the same way about electrics. I would like to raise the action on my Godin LGX-SA as well. Could one raise the action on the Godin Multiac nylon strings?

I had never heard Peter Sprague till last night. I totally enjoyed his playing, including some beautiful work on Desafinado. I subscribed immediately.

As you say, personal preference. I played heavy strings/medium high action on my electrics for many years, mimicking the classical action of my Contreras. It wasn't until I went to Spain and studied with Paco Pena that I realized the high classical action was unnecessary, and I switched to flamenco guitars for all of my nylon-string work, and went to a lower action and lighter gauge string set on my electrics as well, both 6 and 7-string. This also led me to playing with a lighter touch, overall, and gave me a wider dynamic range. Jim Hall had recommended that move years ago when I used to present him in Boston.

As far as I can see, raising or lowering the action on the Multiacs or any guitar outfitted with the RMC pickup system is a time-consuming, difficult job. I would think that it might be easier on the Multiac by shimming the bolt-on neck, but one could also shim each individual bridge saddle to raise the action. I know that mine was pretty much perfect right out of the box, and I have experimented with string gauges to get the sound and balance I like. The Godin will always be a compromise between electric and acoustic, but it has nice sustain (flamenco guitars don't) and works as advertised.

I agree with you 100% on Peter Sprague's playing. and his work is very similar to what I'm doing on the 7-string with looper and synth. Nice to hear the results from another perspective.

[targuit]

Ron, are you familiar with the Yamaha NCX 900 series classicals with a cutaway?

Couple of other questions - what kind of set list are you playing these days? Jazz standards, bossa nova and sambas, originals? I was wondering how you incorporate the looper and synths with that. I have a Roland GR-20 but I am pretty disenchanted with it on the whole. And perhaps in trying to raise my action on the LGX I may have messed up the tracking a bit. I've been trying to use the Roland through an interface into my computer for note entry into Sibelius with mixed success. I've use the synth for recording but I find there are some significant problems with latency.

In regards to action, I wonder how Gene Bertoncini's Buscarino is set up?

[KirkP]

. ... Just this weekend I was playing a relatively inexpensive Yamaha 700 NTX series guitar, if I recall the model correctly, which was ok for the money. But the action was quite low. ...

The Yamaha NTX-700 typically comes from the factory with very high action both at the nut and the bridge and with the strings spaced too close together at the nut. I wonder if the one you played had been modified.
I've really enjoyed mine after it was set up to my tastes. Since it comes with a an excellent pickup/preamp system, it's a good value.

[targuit]

Hmm...I don't know. I played it in a relatively small music store and did not follow up with the owner with any questions, but the one I played definitely had a low action.

[KirkP]

More info on NTX 700 setup possibilities:
http://www.classical-guitars-plus.co...nd+NCX+Guitars
If you prefer a conventional "classical" neck to a hybrid, you should try the NCX models instead.
http://www.classical-guitars-plus.co...utaway+Guitars

[ronjazz]

Ron, are you familiar with the Yamaha NCX 900 series classicals with a cutaway?

Couple of other questions - what kind of set list are you playing these days? Jazz standards, bossa nova and sambas, originals? I was wondering how you incorporate the looper and synths with that. I have a Roland GR-20 but I am pretty disenchanted with it on the whole. And perhaps in trying to raise my action on the LGX I may have messed up the tracking a bit. I've been trying to use the Roland through an interface into my computer for note entry into Sibelius with mixed success. I've use the synth for recording but I find there are some significant problems with latency.

In regards to action, I wonder how Gene Bertoncini's Buscarino is set up?

I can't play the Yamahas, they are too narrow in general. I have a Godin Multiac 7-string nylon that is quite good, an Antonio Aparicio flamenco that I had converted to a 7-string, with RMC pickups system, really good, and a cheap Giannini 7-string nylon that is far better than it should be, currently with a K & K system of transducers under the soundboard.

I play many styles, from jazz to bossa and samba, flamenco, original tunes, and lots of West African music. With the looper, I mostly record my accompaniment to my own singing or another instrument soloing, then I solo over my own changes. The synth is a GR55, quite a good instrument, but relatively new to me, so I'm still messing around, not using it on many gigs yet. With the RMC system, it tracks much better than previous models, but it's still pitch-to-MIDI, so using it to input into a notation program will be messy.

Gene's Buscarino, like his D'Aquisto, plays, in the words of Russell Malone, "like buttah".

[DRS]

Thanks for the Youtube. I've never heard of Peter Sprague, so thanks. I just picked up a La Patrie Hybrid CW cutaway nylon stringed guitar. So far so good.

[ronjazz]

La Patrie is a Godin company, so there you go.

[rob taft]

Targuit

I own an Yamaha NTX 1200R. I replaced the nut as I wasn't happy with the string spacing i.e. to cramped and Yamaha left a lot of space to accommodate a wider string spacing. When I changed the nut, I also replaced the saddle with a bone saddle. I don't like very low action when I play fingerstyle which is nearly all the time now. The one thing the Yamaha has going for it besides a good build quality to cost ratio is their pickup system. I've played a number of different nylon electric guitars and I have a L.R. Baggs Lyric Classical in my traditional classic guitar and I haven't heard anything better. To my knowledge, Yamaha uses the same pickup system in all of the NTX or NCX guitars. You might also check out their latest version of their latest version o9f their silent guitar which goes on sale June or July of this year.

SLG200S - SILENT guitar? - Yamaha - Other European Countries


Back to action, the one thing that isn't hard to do on a Yamaha NTX or NCX is raise the action. Just replace the nut and saddle to your preferred action and you are there.

[mr. beaumont]

A question for Jeff (Mr. Beaumont), as I recall that he has one of the Godin nylon string hybrids. I had debated years ago whether to spend my money on a Godin LGX-SA or the equivalent amplified synth access classical version with a cutaway. I ended up with the LGX, thinking it was a more diverse sound, but in the end I think I would have preferred the nylon string. But there are a couple of issues.

Just this weekend I was playing a relatively inexpensive Yamaha 700 NTX series guitar, if I recall the model correctly, which was ok for the money. But the action was quite low. I know that the manufacturers do this to appeal to electric players, but I very much prefer a higher action with some rebound, particularly on a classical nylon string but even on an electric. Maybe I'm out of step with the current trends but every amplified nylon string I see these days has this low action which annoys the heck out of me.

So the question to Jeff or anyone else to chime in is whether his Godin nylon string has that low 'electric' action. I suspect it does, having played one these guitars in the Multiac series years ago. Makes me think that if I wanted a classical nylon string with a cutaway and a higher action that I would have to commission it from a luthier or perhaps check out the Kenny Hill guitars or a used Kirk Sands guitar. Mucho denaro....

Missed this post.

pretty low, about 2mm. Certainly could get a higher saddle.

wish you lived closer, you could come check it out, I think you'd dig it.

[DRS]

As you say, personal preference. I played heavy strings/medium high action on my electrics for many years, mimicking the classical action of my Contreras. It wasn't until I went to Spain and studied with Paco Pena that I realized the high classical action was unnecessary, and I switched to flamenco guitars for all of my nylon-string work, and went to a lower action and lighter gauge string set on my electrics as well, both 6 and 7-string. This also led me to playing with a lighter touch, overall, and gave me a wider dynamic range. Jim Hall had recommended that move years ago when I used to present him in Boston.

As far as I can see, raising or lowering the action on the Multiacs or any guitar outfitted with the RMC pickup system is a time-consuming, difficult job. I would think that it might be easier on the Multiac by shimming the bolt-on neck, but one could also shim each individual bridge saddle to raise the action. I know that mine was pretty much perfect right out of the box, and I have experimented with string gauges to get the sound and balance I like. The Godin will always be a compromise between electric and acoustic, but it has nice sustain (flamenco guitars don't) and works as advertised.

I agree with you 100% on Peter Sprague's playing. and his work is very similar to what I'm doing on the 7-string with looper and synth. Nice to hear the results from another perspective.

So what height do you have the action set to on your flamenco guitars?

[ronjazz]

Very low, as on most flamenco guitars. 1/8" at 1st fret, 3/16" at 12th fret is what I see. My guitars are made by Lester Devoe, who has made guitars for Paco de Lucia, Vicente Amigo, Sabicas and many other masters.

[Stanford J17]

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