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Well, I've played jazz on nylon for forty years now, with lessons from John Williams and Paco Pena in classical and flamenco, and jazz lessons with too many greats to name, and I pay very much attention to tone production, because I don't want my audience fighting through a bad sound to enjoy the music. I favor light, punchy flamenco-style instruments with the RMC pickup system which is really quite brilliant, amplified through the Bose L1 system, which is a lousy guitar amp, but a truly high-fidelity wide-range sound system. It has also troubled me over the years that players such as Bola Sete and Charlie Byrd had pretty poor sounds, which was sort of explainable in live situations, but why make records that sound thin and metallic and scratchy? My recordings, done on fine instruments with good strings using excellent mics, sound really nice, so it can be done, but it sure is an interesting question. It's been interesting to me to hear Sylvain Luc and Nelson Veras sound so good on Godin classicals, but those also use the RMC pickup system, and both of them have tuned their techniques to those guitars to get a very respectable tone.
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01-03-2012 12:38 AM
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how about checking out nelson veras for som great nylon string playing?
or diego figueirido
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Great guitarists!!!
Originally Posted by sylvain54000
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I've been listening to Gene Bertoncini's "Body and Soul" and "Quiet Now" albums a lot for the past two months, and they are what led me to this thread. He has an almost Bill Evans or Jim Hall level of sensitivity and romanticism on these records. He hits a sweet spot for me; not too genteel, not too flashy, not too slick, and not too sloppy. And very rooted in jazz. I'll admit that it sounds like restaurant music of the gods, but it's got enough poetry in it to make me think he's a real artist. He certainly isn't as clean a player as some finger style artists, and he's not as showy a musician as someone like Joe Pass. As a fan of players like Marc Ribot, this doesn't bother me at all. MattyMel, who commented earlier in this thread, has a different take on his tone than I do; I don't have extensive experience studying classical guitar, as he does. I love acoustic archtop players, but I don't find myself wishing Bertoncini was playing one on his solo albums. The arrangements seem pretty worked out, and less bebop inspired than someone like Pass. I also picked up one of his duet records with bassist Michael Moore, and I was less taken with it, though it has its charms. I do like his Jobim record a lot as well (it's solo guitar + light hand percussion) If he would record 5 more solo records on nylon string guitar, I'd buy them all. If anyone has recommendations for albums quite similar to Bertoncini's, please post them! Ken Hatfield looks promising...thanks for the tip, Randalljazz. Fred Fried also looks interesting. His solo version of "People" on his website has some of what I'm looking for. Breau's Cabin Fever is certainly great...it's a quite a bit freer than Bertoncini's solo jazz records. Breau at times gets into a Keith Jarrett-like trance; at other times he tears up bop scales like Joe Pass. He's brilliant, but it's a different animal from the more arrangement-centered (but still jazz) approach.
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bertoncini is the best solo guitarist to listen to IMO. the most interesting harmonic approach, very akin to a bill evans type thing, and its improvised. don't get me wrong, i just wish i was hearing an arch top. but as i said, he couldn't play much of it with a pick if he did.
i saw him play with a quartet once using a D'Aquisto arch top and...wow. took a lesson from him the next day. real deal. and a GREAT teacher.
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livro, check out the Brazilians like Baden Powell, Bonfa and Raphael Rabello as well; all three have great jazz influence in their playing. And don't overlook Romero Lubambo, an amazing player with Joe Pass-like chops on the nylon.
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Did you get your questions answered to your satisfaction? Originally Posted by adimi24
For what it's worth, I have gone from playing my Larrivee dread (D-10) to a nylon string almost exclusively for jazz. I am a total noob with jazz (although I do have some theory under my belt and studied classical music for years on another instrument in an early era). There have been some pretty strong opinions expressed here, of which, I would caution you to be wary. I play the nylon because I love the sound. I have had no issues competing for sound space when playing with one or two other players. The most challenging part of playing jazz on the classical guitar for me has been reaching some of the more challenging stretches. Interestingly, I have found that practicing them on this guitar has improved my ability to play them on guitars with smaller string spacing (when I switch to my electrics, for example).
As far as the need to study classical technique just because you're going to be playing on a nylon string guitar: utter hogwash, although I might add that it would not hurt. Music training of any kind only enriches the experience and ability. Jump right into the jazz. Life is short. My guess is that you, like me, are not chasing ambitions of being the next jazz guitar genius.
Any jazz guitar teacher should be interested in the music and not care too much about your gear.
As to finding a good nylon string for under 500. I don't think I can help you there. I picked up an old Aria (1967 vintage) for under 300 locally through Craig's list and I couldn't be happier. Just make sure you play it before paying for it.
Best of luck.
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Yamaha and Cordoba make decent nylon-string guitars in the $500 range, with pickups, something that will become necessary if you want to play jazz on the nylon in a group context. There are decent nylon-string instruments at pawn shops everywhere for $150-350, and putting a decent transducer or Shadow under-saddle pickup in is another $50-200. Check eBay as well: I bought a Giannini 7-string classical with pickup for $300, and, while it's not my #1 nylon 7-string, it is a great backup guitar and functions quite well. Your local Guitar center will also have a selection of Korean classicals with pickups for $200 or so.
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Thanks much for these recommendations, ronjazz, and thanks Matthew Meldon for your take as well. I think it's high praise, coming from a Berkeley grad and guitar professional, when you say Bertoncini has "the most interesting harmonic approach" of solo guitarists. His harmonies certainly capture my ear, too. I'm not knowledgeable enough to make any claims about harmonic inventiveness, but Bertoncini seems as subtle and sophisticated on this count as any of his better-known peers over the last 50 years or so. Originally Posted by ronjazz
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Gene has an uncanny ability to harmonize melodies in the most surprising fashion. His students at NEC called him "master of the specific chord". He is getting on in years, so his technique is not what it once was, but there is a subtle beauty in his work. I really learned a lot from the Jobim CD, as I play a lot of that material. Gene is also a fine human being, approachable and generous.
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Hey everyone - I'm bumping this old thread because it has been such a revelation to me. I have always had a flamenco guitar kicking around and love playing it for the tone and really just because I love playing with my fingers. Now that I am thinking about learning more jazz all these incredible videos have been a real inspiration.
FYI - I created a Pandora station "Nylon String Jazz Guitar Players" that is based on many of the artists mentioned in this thread. I think you should be able to search and find it.
I find that this dilutes the pool a little too much and brings in a a wider variety than I am looking for most times. So, I listen to a lot of stations that are made up of one artist, but in case you want to see a lot of these artists put in one place - there it is!
Thanks again for everyone that contributed to this great thread.
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Check out Bola Sete on youtube.
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Boy that Bola Sete stuff is incredible. Thanks for the tip.
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I've been taking lessons with Larry Coryell over at his place here in Orlando. I'd say 95% of the time he has been playing a classical guitar during the lessons. And plays it very well I might add. Jazz and classical repertoire.
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Gene Bertoncini has been mentioned already but I will bump him again. I have had a chance to study with him in a jazz camp setting and learned a lot. Great guitarist and a warm, generous human being.
If you are looking for awesome improvising nylon string guitar, check out Romero Lubambo. There is lots on YouTube.
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What an amazing player! Classical style and approach applied to standards by a Hungarian gypsy guitar player. Costa Lukacs on this piece demonstrates his creativity. Originally Posted by peterja
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A question for Jeff (Mr. Beaumont), as I recall that he has one of the Godin nylon string hybrids. I had debated years ago whether to spend my money on a Godin LGX-SA or the equivalent amplified synth access classical version with a cutaway. I ended up with the LGX, thinking it was a more diverse sound, but in the end I think I would have preferred the nylon string. But there are a couple of issues.
Just this weekend I was playing a relatively inexpensive Yamaha 700 NTX series guitar, if I recall the model correctly, which was ok for the money. But the action was quite low. I know that the manufacturers do this to appeal to electric players, but I very much prefer a higher action with some rebound, particularly on a classical nylon string but even on an electric. Maybe I'm out of step with the current trends but every amplified nylon string I see these days has this low action which annoys the heck out of me.
So the question to Jeff or anyone else to chime in is whether his Godin nylon string has that low 'electric' action. I suspect it does, having played one these guitars in the Multiac series years ago. Makes me think that if I wanted a classical nylon string with a cutaway and a higher action that I would have to commission it from a luthier or perhaps check out the Kenny Hill guitars or a used Kirk Sands guitar. Mucho denaro....
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My Godin Ambience Concert has low action. Originally Posted by targuit
A question for Jeff (Mr. Beaumont), as I recall that he has one of the Godin nylon string hybrids. I had debated years ago whether to spend my money on a Godin LGX-SA or the equivalent amplified synth access classical version with a cutaway. I ended up with the LGX, thinking it was a more diverse sound, but in the end I think I would have preferred the nylon string. But there are a couple of issues.
Just this weekend I was playing a relatively inexpensive Yamaha 700 NTX series guitar, if I recall the model correctly, which was ok for the money. But the action was quite low. I know that the manufacturers do this to appeal to electric players, but I very much prefer a higher action with some rebound, particularly on a classical nylon string but even on an electric. Maybe I'm out of step with the current trends but every amplified nylon string I see these days has this low action which annoys the heck out of me.
So the question to Jeff or anyone else to chime in is whether his Godin nylon string has that low 'electric' action. I suspect it does, having played one these guitars in the Multiac series years ago. Makes me think that if I wanted a classical nylon string with a cutaway and a higher action that I would have to commission it from a luthier or perhaps check out the Kenny Hill guitars or a used Kirk Sands guitar. Mucho denaro....
I had a Takamine TC132SC and my teacher had a Ramirez R1CWE which both had proper classical guitar action.
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I've got a Takamine EC132C which is very standard classical in regards to action. I also have a Rick Turner Renaissance RN-6 which is a bit more "electric guitar" feeling and has a fantastic tone.
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This thread is Klughless
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David Cullen is versatile but plays mostly a nylon string guitar:
David Cullen Guitarist ? Jazz & Classical Guitar
Amazon.com: David Cullen: Jazz, Classical, and Beyond (Book & CD) (Acoustic Masterclass) (9780757916908): David Cullen: Books
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I recently bought a Godin Multiac Nylon 7-string for jazz/World Music work, specifically
because it has a slightly radiused fingerboard and a lower action than my several classical
and flamenco 6 and 7-string instruments. The classical action is not really conducive to the smooth,
flowing legato styles most jazz players favor; in fact, listen to Nelson Veras on his Godin, his
phrasing is liquid, like a horn, with a really nice tone, and, with the RMC pickup system,
one can play with a more relaxed right-hand approach and still get the volume needed.
My jazz style is very flamenco-based, so I often use a modified flamenco 7-string for my work,
but in larger groups or high-volume situations, the Godin is excellent, and the price is unbeatable.
On top of all that, it is synth-ready, and the fun to be had with a Roland GR-55 along with
a looper is endless, especially in duo or trio situations. It's also extremely stable and solidly
built.
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If I knew how to post the YouTube of Peter Sprague's arrangement of My Favorite Things I would.
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05-16-2015, 04:20 AM #99destinytot Guest Originally Posted by Encinitastubes
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Interesting, Ron, that you prefer the lowered action in terms of creating more legato phrasing. I find that it interferes with pull offs, slurs, and hammer on type articulations that help to create the legato feel. Likely a personal preference thing, but I like the 'rebound' of nylon strings in the traditional classical action. With the very low actions I feel like I have to "hammer" the finger board rather than press and release the string. Slows me down. I would add that I feel the same way about electrics. I would like to raise the action on my Godin LGX-SA as well. Could one raise the action on the Godin Multiac nylon strings?
I had never heard Peter Sprague till last night. I totally enjoyed his playing, including some beautiful work on Desafinado. I subscribed immediately.
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