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I've been listening to alot of different players lately and Pat Metheny is definitely my favorite guitarist. The first time I heard his music I was at a point in my musical development where I was "searching" for something, something I wanted to hear in music that I wasn't hearing anywhere.It's hard to explain. Anyway the first time I heard his music it was like a light bulb moment like "wow that's it".I also really like his adventurousness in his music but how he also keeps it "relate-able". He is a true virtuoso and musical genius. Listening to his playing really taught me how to play with "expressiveness" rather than just a bunch of notes. Especially how the phrasing is actually more important than the notes you actually play in a sense. U know what they say? It's not what you say but how you say it that really matters in many instances. Felt like gushing over this guys incredible playing today. Okay I'm all sappy oh well lol.
Edited to get the phrasing right lol
Last edited by Double 07; 07-30-2011 at 08:58 PM.
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07-30-2011 07:45 PM
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Yes, he's truly worthy of the admiration. Careful that in your admiration you don't lose your own identity to his sound. He's so inspiring that he's become a trap for many a young player. Appreciate the people he admires, check out the old stuff, Bright Size Life, Dreams So Real (and then check out Mick Goodrick) and use Pat's sound as a springboard. There's so much to learn from him if you see his totality. Good luck!
David
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I'd go as far to say that Metheny is the most important musician of his generation in Jazz as an improviser, recording, band leader and composer. I can't think this moment of someone who's had a bigger impact over all.
He's a master, he's also incredibly well known outside of the Jazz world compared to most Jazzers and is highly accessible to everyone who just loves music, and complex to the point that serious Musicians scratch their heads in disbelief. Melody melody melody, amazing. He's a true master. I've seen him twice live, both times was earth shatteringLast edited by Jake Hanlon; 07-30-2011 at 08:34 PM.
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I agree actually, that's why I don't copy other players licks. I know alot of people do that and I'm not saying it's bad. Instead I learn "concepts" from other high level musicians on guitar or horns or whatever and do my own thing with the different concepts. With a single musical concept there are a zillion things you can do with it. I really don't know many licks at all except the ones I created on my own. It's extremely important for me to do me in everything I do in life including guitar.
Originally Posted by TruthHertz
Last edited by Double 07; 07-30-2011 at 09:16 PM.
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You're going to have a good long run! Enjoy the journey. Originally Posted by Double 07
David
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Where to begin. Metheny is one of the most original and creative musicians to ever pick up an instrument. He is prolific in his writing and compositional skills. He branches out into many different areas and pushes the boundaries onto new areas, all the while keeping his unique stamp intact.
What I love the most is his melodic sense, phrasing, sense of time, and especially his rhythmic conception. I am always blown away by how he conceives the rhythmic component of his playing. It is not just a bunch of swung 8ths, triplets & 16ths. I hear some of his rhythmic figures and think to myself, how did he come up with that, I would NEVER think of a rhythmic figure like that.
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You're preaching to the choir here. I wrote this on another forum last year:
The Orchestrion tour just brings me further to the conclusion that there are few modern musicians who are as forward thinking, restlessly creative and open minded as Pat Metheny.
I have followed his work since the 1976 Bright Size Life album. Over the ensuing 34 years, he has pushed the concept of jazz, sometimes hitting incredibly high marks, sometimes falling short. But he has always been true to his own muse and has been very successful doing it.
Write brilliant songs at age 14? String up Ibanez solid body 12 strings in strange and wonderful tunings and make exceptional music with it? Explore the dissonance of Ornette Coleman, the folk/pop of Joni, the straight ahead styles of Brecker, Hancock, The Heath Brothers, the “outside” music of Derek Bailey, the minimalism of Steve Reich, the pop/rock of Bruce Hornsby? He’s done all of that. He has done it all at a level that most never reach in one genre.
From the smooth jazz of the album “We Live Here” to the Americana of “New Chatauqua” to the sound of The Ventures meet Nine Inch Nails meet Stravinsky in songs like The Roots of Coincidence, the guy has visited musical places most of us will never reach. I’ve heard him quote Muddy Water and Wipeout in concert, yet seen him just completely get off playing nothing but the rhythm of First Circle and heard him just blow over standards like Stella and How Insensitive.
There are guys who play as well, maybe some better in some styles, but it’s hard to find somebody who’s done so much in so many musical areas.
I've been to a seminar of his when it didn't cost $5K, and seen him live with The Group and with trios. I've had the fortune to get a couple of passes for "after shows" and the guy's conversation is as brilliant as his music.
I think that Pat writes his own definitions (plural intended) of what music is.
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Pat once said that he practiced playing "Happy Birthday To You" over and over again for 2 hours before playing it "live" for his child's birthday party!
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Yeah, he's one of a kind. I can't think of anyone else who's quite like him musically. And I bet they are out there, but damn they're hard to find. No drugs, lots of triads, clever melodies, impeccable sense of time.
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I like the way he never quite gets 'there'
the note is always frail and wanting to 'fall down'
it is his unique sound which is very rare
He's the favorite player of a Pro Sax player mate of mine
and I asked him what he digs about Pats playing
and he said he dug the soaring quality
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i hear you. the case can certanly be made. Originally Posted by Jake Hanlon
i happen to believe that John McLaughlin is the most important jazz guitarist since Wes Montgomery, however. yes, jazz guitarist. but Metheny's legacy is a valid debate.
and so it goes.Last edited by fumblefingers; 08-02-2011 at 02:07 AM.
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For the sake of discussion, I will agree and disagree just on the level that yes I'd say as a guitarist, and to the instrument as a whole McLaughlin has few rivals for what he did for the instrument in Jazz, essentially he redid what Jim Hall did, introduce the Guitar to Jazz in a way it had not been used previously on the level he did, and I would say Jim Hall was more important then Metheny or McLaughlin for his contributions to the instrument and it's potential in ensembles sans piano which in 1960 was rare for horn players to go without a pianist. Jazz Guitarists seem to split themselves into a few 'schools' of players much like how Pianists tend to follow down the Bill Evans path or the MyCoy Tyner path, Guitarists follow a Wes path or a Jim Hall path as being the two most common options I hear at least, and of course always mixing everything together in more ways then one until we get to Fusion on Guitar which is your McLaughlin statement... to me it makes sense.
Metheny's influence I think stems far wider then just his own instrument and further into composition then McLaughlin's influence has. Not to McLaughlin is not a great writer, far from it I think he writes great stuff. However that Metheny sound really is something that has had a big impact and we're seeing it stronger and stronger in the generations of X and Y musicians who have had all of that stuff soaking in. Both I think have had a near equal important impact on jazz guitar post 1969, McLaughlin's influence is pretty strongly steeped in Fusion or the Indian Fusion ensembles he had/has and Metheny's is a wider reach of a musical pallet from more commercially successful yet still musically satisfying larger groups, Straight ahead, Free Jazz and experimentation in recording technology and instrument technology... I've heard lots of McLaughlin in a lot of settings (love his organ trio record especially) but I don't think many people have, they know Metheny more, he has more classic records I think.
My favorite thing about both of those guys is that they're un-compromising in their art form. Interviews I've read and watched with either man are uplifting and inspiring and they are always doing what they feel they must do for their music and not for their fame or bank account... I've not seen McLaughlin since he lives in Europe and I've seen Metheny twice live and both times were extraordinary, episodic moments for myself and I won't get a chance to see him perform again unless I go extremely out of my way and pay a butt load of money on a flight and tickets to the show... even as I type that I think for sure it is worth it to do such a thing, sadly if I had to spend money, big money on seeing a hero musician it would be Wayne Shorter since the man is not a young man anymore and time is (sadly) running out.
An interesting thing to note there aren't many Jazz musicians that can hope to touch McLaughlin in terms of fame, something we in North America don't understand of how big a star he is in South Eastern Asia/India etc. Subsequently no one makes more money as a Jazz instrumentalist as Metheny does (i'm sure diana krall makes more then he does) but that is based a great deal on the pure number of shows the man does every year and what he is rumored to be paid for them.
Next lets make a McLaughlin gush thread, he should have one.
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Yeah, Im with you on this one. I have been listening to John since the mid 70's. I actually heard him in the early 70's ala Mahavihnu. But I was not into him until Skati came on the seen. Right about that same time Pat put out Bright Size Life and his White Album. I was hooked on both artist's ever since. But in the long run, I listen to Pat more. But The first three Shakti Albums are the Crown Jewels, IMHO, of Johns music. Don't get me wrong, he has done some wonderful things since. Many more than most could ever hope to achieve. But the quintessential John, are those albums. The spirituality and fusion of Indian Raga meeting western jazz that was embodied in those sessions, has not been achieved since and is unparalleled.
But Pat just keeps on pushing the Pat envelope. The niche that he has carved out and the unique sound he has stayed true to, have stayed the course. He is the energizer bunny of longevity.
With that being said, I love them both!!!
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yes indeed.
regarding the energizer bunny comment, McLaughlin of course was playing in the UK blues scene in the late 50s when he was a teenager, is now 69, and just released To The One last year. the first cut on that album sounds as contemporary as... I don't know what. prior to 2010 he toured with Five Peace Band (Corea et al). This fall he is back with Shakti. After the age of 60 he composed and performed his second concerto for guitar and orchestra. and of course i'm skipping over the primary things that put him in the history books in the first place.
Pat was playing clubs as a teenager too, and has done a very diverse and impressive set of projects of course, but he has a ways to go on the longetivity thing relative to JM. (not that thats the most important thing mind you).
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Originally Posted by Jake Hanlon
i know what you mean. i saw him about 6 years ago. he did a truly blazing duet with his drummer that was worth the price of admission as far as i was concerned. i had never heard him go flat out like that before. i didnt even know that he could, and i've heard him a lot.
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Here's an interesting story
My brother lived with Pat when they both went to Miami University in the 70's. My brother only lived with him for a Semester and said he was'nt around much he was playing gigs for famous people as well as rehersing with his band. He told my brother to look for an album that he would be putting out. So when my brother returned home a yr or so later The Pat Metheny Group album came out. The one i love the most with Phase Dance. Anyway my brother would play it every morining before i went to high School. Back then i was a Southern Rock lover and blues. After about a year of hearing this album non stop it hit me how amazing he was! Unfortuanlety i took jazz lesson for only 6 months and went back to rock until i was in my late 40's. Well anyway when pat played at the Botton Line in late 70's, it may have been his first appreance there, we went to see him. The place was empty, after the show he came out and sat at the bar with us, i was only like 19... I was'nt in awe or anything, we did'nt know he would become a legend Well my brother has seen him constantly over the last 30 yrs and he still remembers my brother...somewhat.
Ken
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Anybody going to the Pat summer camp? Aug 22-26. It's where you'll see him playing the rare duo with the great master and mentor Mick Goodrick.
David
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Your preaching to the choir my Brother!! I am highly aware of both of my hero's time line's and pedigree's. Nice to see someone else feel's the same!!! Originally Posted by fumblefingers
yes indeed.
regarding the energizer bunny comment, McLaughlin of course was playing in the UK blues scene in the late 50s when he was a teenager, is now 69, and just released To The One last year. the first cut on that album sounds as contemporary as... I don't know what. prior to 2010 he toured with Five Peace Band (Corea et al). This fall he is back with Shakti. After the age of 60 he composed and performed his second concerto for guitar and orchestra. and of course i'm skipping over the primary things that put him in the history books in the first place.
Pat was playing clubs as a teenager too, and has done a very diverse and impressive set of projects of course, but he has a ways to go on the longetivity thing relative to JM. (not that thats the most important thing mind you).
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Morten is going!!!! Originally Posted by TruthHertz
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Yup, I'm going! :-) Originally Posted by TruthHertz
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Taking a workshop? Come up with good questions! Have fun- Originally Posted by MortenFaerestrand
David
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I am just grateful that I live in a world in which my CD changer holds Metheny, Rosenwinkel, Tribal Tech, Holdsworth, Steve Cardenas, and Robben Ford...and on and on and on and on. I have no shortage of inspiration whatsoever! Practice time...that's another story.
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I am soooooo jealous!!!! You are going to tear it up Sensei!!!!! Originally Posted by MortenFaerestrand
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One thing I've always really admired about Pat's improv is how, if you listen correctly, one idea just flows right into the next one like a conversation or reading a well written language. Even though the tonal centers and harmonic terrain are constantly changing underneath what he's playing, when he's really "on", his lines keep flowing and fit together to make a coherent whole. Not many guitar player's achieve that kind of "fluency" IMO. It's more common to hear in great horn player's more frequently than from guitar player's IMO. If there is one thing I've tried to emulate from his playing style that would be it. How well I've actually done in that regard is another story lol.
Sure it's not necessary to do that in order to play great stuff but I sure like the sound of the way he does that.
Last edited by Double 07; 08-05-2011 at 02:45 AM.
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I mentioned this in another thread but before he joined up with Gary Burton, and while he was at Miami, Pat had a reputation of being a really great free player. His sense of structure, imagination and line was something that was solid without the benefit of a harmonic song form. He had a group Kaleidoscope that he played free jazz with, and he played a lot of out stuff with Jaco.
When you don't have song form to fall back and hang your cliches on, it can make you aware of just what you do have to work with. I wonder how this helped his sense of flow.
David
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