Miles Davis - What's the fuss?

**The Poppster** · 09-30-2010, 03:50 AM

Now, i appreciate that some of you might be forming a lynch mob at this very moment and setting off in my direction, but please be patient ... I'm a newbie!!

As I'm learning more about jazz the name that keeps coming up is Miles Davis. So I thought I should really get something by him just to see. But when I've listened to samples of his music on Amazon or HMV I must confess that I really don't see what the fuss is about this guy!

Am I missing something? Your opinions would be most welcome.

Poppster

**moray** · 09-30-2010, 03:54 AM

Listen to "So What" on the Album "Kind of Blue" to get started.
You will hear what it's all about.

**The Poppster** · 09-30-2010, 04:05 AM

Thanks Moray. I'll check it out.

**musicalbodger** · 09-30-2010, 04:23 AM

Not everyone appreciates Miles. He wasn't the greatest trumpet player but he had the ability to morph from one style to another over the years and was always at the forefront of any new development in jazz, and he always hired the young turks for his band. In that sense he was like Art Blakey and Frank Zappa — you had to be good and original to play in the band but it was a passport to future success — if you'd played with these guys, it was a certificate of approval that you were the best.

For the rest check out this link to wikipedia Miles Davis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia it's far more informative than I can be here.

To put it simply, after he had broken so much new ground in the '50s and '60s he had the knack of melding jazz with what was current on the pop scene. So when Hendrix, et al hit the scene he wanted to add that to his music and keep communicating with a young audience. He kept that up until he died, sometimes successfully, sometimes not. Give his albums a listen from each decade and you'll see what a monster he was. Apart from that, he oozed charisma which not doubt helped!

**The Poppster** · 09-30-2010, 04:27 AM

Thanks Bodger, I think I'm starting to get the picture now. I really like Robben Ford and I know he played with Miles, hence my curiosity. Thanks for the info.

**mr. beaumont** · 09-30-2010, 10:25 AM

you always have to remember that miles essentially started every shift in jazz for about a 30 year period.

Don't listen to samples, buy "kind of blue." remember that nobody made music like that before him. recognize how it still sounds fresh today.

Miles is the most important musician of the 20th century.

**The Poppster** · 09-30-2010, 10:34 AM

Thanks for your input Mr Beaumont. I bought a copy of 'kind of blue' today, it'll arrive tomorrow. Wow, I sure stand corrected!

(well, in a seated position that is!

)

**Bill C** · 09-30-2010, 10:43 AM

Originally Posted by The Poppster

Thanks Bodger, I think I'm starting to get the picture now. I really like Robben Ford and I know he played with Miles, hence my curiosity. Thanks for the info.

There is a cool video on YouTube of Robben talking about when he got the call from Miles and his experiences in the band.

**derek** · 09-30-2010, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

you always have to remember that miles essentially started every shift in jazz for about a 30 year period.

Don't listen to samples, buy "kind of blue." remember that nobody made music like that before him. recognize how it still sounds fresh today.

Miles is the most important musician of the 20th century.

This, plus Miles was more of a phrasing guy than a chops guy. There were plenty of chops guys around, and Miles seems to have hired them all over the years. If you look at the roster of players who worked for Miles, it is a veritable who's who for that thirty 30 period Mr. B talked about.

So it not just his playing, his writing/arranging, his moving jazz in several different directions, but also his legacy of bring new and very diversely talented musicians to the spotlight.

**cosmic gumbo** · 09-30-2010, 11:23 AM

Plus, if you like electric music, on A Tribute to Jack Johnson, Miles turned some jazz musicians into the world's greatest rock band. Yessir...

**musicalbodger** · 09-30-2010, 01:29 PM

Originally Posted by cosmic gumbo

Plus, if you like electric music, on A Tribute to Jack Johnson, Miles turned some jazz musicians into the world's greatest rock band. Yessir...

yessiree

**brad4d8** · 09-30-2010, 01:43 PM

During the sixties and seventies, his new recordings were all anticipated because he was always striking out in new directions. I understand that it was the same ever since his "Birth of the Cool" in the forties. I think that because so much music he pioneered became the standard, in retrospect it's hard to appreciate what an iconoclast and innovator he was from today's viewpoint.
Brad

**keith** · 09-30-2010, 04:27 PM

I'd like to echo what Derek has said here. Miles was not an excessively flashy player compared to other players but was superb in phrasing and tone. Just listen to the example suggested " So What " Listen to Coltranes solo and then compare it to Miles solo and you'll get an idea of how a guy could set a mood and say so much by playing very little.

**cosmic gumbo** · 09-30-2010, 11:51 PM

Miles is also one of jazz's greatest composers.

**The Poppster** · 10-01-2010, 01:46 AM

Hey, thanks everyone for your very informative input so far! I really appreciate it

**SwingSwangSwung** · 10-01-2010, 04:13 AM

His autobiography Miles should be required reading for every musician [warning - almost every sentence in the book is filled with profanity]. I really appreciate how he believed in himself and his music and fought through stereotypes to set the standard.

**Uli** · 10-05-2010, 02:46 AM

IMHO, if you want to understand what Miles did you'll have to understand that he boiled everything down to what sounds actually quite simple on a technical level. However, it's all about reducing things to the essential. If you really want to appreciate it, you would have to start with rather "complicated" playing such as the one of Dizzy Gillespie or Charlie Parker, and listen to Miles Davis afterwards. If you do it vice versa, you might get the wrong impression.

The only trouble is that, in my opinion, there's not much to deduct for Guitar from his playing.

**The Poppster** · 10-05-2010, 03:35 AM

Thanks for your comment Uli.
I've listened to 'kind of blue' a couple of times now and whilst I find what I'm hearing 'interesting', I also find that it doesn't 'add' anything to me, musically speaking. Just to clarify, I like a whole range of music, from Wes Montogomery to Metallica. I don't listen to any other metal bands but Metallica however, but the lyrics ,rhythm and power of their songs 'add' something to my experience. When I first heard 'smokin at the half note' by Wes, I was sold! I didn't need to 'try and understand' it; it was just right there, and it added something very profound to me. By contrast Miles Davis seems like a lot of hard work for (I say tentatively) it's own sake.
Can you see where I'm coming from?

**musicalbodger** · 10-05-2010, 05:01 AM

Hi Poppster
The most rewarding experiences are those you have to work hard for. Try something like Jack Johnson, We Want Miles, Live Evil, you might find the power there puts Metallica to shame.

**Uli** · 10-05-2010, 05:08 AM

Everybody's free to like or dislike this or that music, of cause. I have always been suspicious towards attempts to build up a "canon" for Jazz, as in classical music. That's not what it's all about. It's rather all about freedom, as somebody said.

Still, it's a lot about crafts, expression, and finding one's own voice. Which is why I think Miles Davis was a great musician.

**The Poppster** · 10-05-2010, 06:27 AM

Originally Posted by Uli

Everybody's free to like or dislike this or that music, of cause. I have always been suspicious towards attempts to build up a "canon" for Jazz, as in classical music. That's not what it's all about. It's rather all about freedom, as somebody said.

Still, it's a lot about crafts, expression, and finding one's own voice. Which is why I think Miles Davis was a great musician.

Point well taken Uli! Thank you for your input.

Hi Bodger . . . I will definitely check those out. Thanks man.

**FatJeff** · 10-05-2010, 09:21 AM

Originally Posted by The Poppster

Miles Davis seems like a lot of hard work for (I say tentatively) it's own sake. Can you see where I'm coming from?

I know where you're coming from. I used to think the same thing about Beethoven - before I studied and understood tonal harmony. Now I can see the incredible genius that lies in his music.

Just put it on your mental "back burner" for a while, and listen to some other jazz that pulls at you right now. Come back later and perhaps you'll appreciate it more then.

**KingCrimson250** · 10-08-2010, 09:37 PM

Originally Posted by Uli

The only trouble is that, in my opinion, there's not much to deduct for Guitar from his playing.

I'm no expert, but I'd have to disagree with this. If I could play even half as lyrically as Miles, I'd be happy. The biggest problem I see with guitarists of all genres (including myself) is their playing is just a ton of noodling with no real substance.

The emotion on Blue in Green and the subdued expressiveness of All Blues were enough to make me want to quit guitar when I heard them, heh.

**musicalbodger** · 10-08-2010, 10:08 PM

Originally Posted by KingCrimson250

The biggest problem I see with guitarists of all genres (including myself) is their playing is just a ton of noodling with no real substance.
The emotion on Blue in Green and the subdued expressiveness of All Blues

+1

Trying playing those convincingly on guitar