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Thanks for that post of Jamiroqui. I never heard them before. Nice funk. Really nice!
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01-08-2014 08:53 AM
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Professor Jones, I don't know what to say re similarity of Disco and Smooth Jazz, or if there's some standard definition of all mentioned genres, or what they are to you, but I'll try to explain what I mean by those terms.
Take Chaka Khan, Donna Summer, The Bee Gees, I don't know who else, and they are all Disco, as far as I'm concerned,
and substitute instrumentals for vocals and that's about that. Even better, remove Brown's guitar from above samples and let any of mentioned sing over some lyrics (BTW, I think 2 out of 3 mentioned singers are dead?).
Maybe it's called soul these days, or whatever, I don't know. I know I can not get past what now is named R'n'B?! I mean, what in the world it has to do with original R'n'B, except it's mostly being played by people of somewhat darker color of their skin?
Is it acid Jazz, or Smooth Jazz, well, for me, Acid Jazz is something Techno (Techno being a Disco reincarnation from '90s, drum machines and synths and samples, and whistles, and people shouting Aceeed, Aceeed, I know these last 2 were too far away, some would probably name that House, or Acid House, or Rave...), with Jazz elements.
Incognito and Jamiroquai, in my book they are Disco - Funk acts, with Jazz elements, I can't think of them as of Techno nor I can find anything Acid abut them. Also, I never said they were smooth jazz, but smooth jazz talk, and my own mention of Disco associated me to those two, so I asked if anybody had any opinion about them.
Nevertheless, is the line thin, or not? To me, it's all so similar, all above trying to be nice and fine, in sweet harmony, and play really precise and really well, with sweetest sounds, and make people all sweet and sweaty while they dance (just find some clip of Benson's gig singing that song and those other ones), and show they know what they're doing, but still remain so ultra cool about it all, and they wear funny hats to prove it (and bracelets, and earrings, ...).
I'm little bit old school. For me there are not too many styles. I can not but laugh when I see how many distinctive subgenres of Techno we have nowadays, and that's all Disco after all.
Seams my use of Disco may be to broad, maybe I should revise the nomenclature. For instance, I could ditch "Disco" and start using "Dance" for all that stuff. Counterproductive?
So what?
Let me add, I don't think Kenny G is Disco, or Disco like. Not at all. To me, he's Richard Cleidermann on Sax, or that older guy on keyboards, can't remember right now, or Classics on 45, but I do think of it as of smooth jazz.
Also I don't think Metheny is Disco, but I don't think he's smooth jazz either. However, most of the people I know, who are really into funk, groove and disco, they all like Metheny.
And SRV.
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It's all music, good or bad, which depends on your personal taste at a moment in time.
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There are two kinds of music, the good kind and the other kind. I like both. - Duke Ellington(attributed).
I love that line.
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I don't see what Earth Wind and Fire has to do with this discussion. I can name plenty of guitar based Smooth Jazz performers, but EW&F is just not in that class (although they are fine with me).
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What is smooth jazz?
We use to have a smooth jazz station in San Diego, they promoted themselves as smooth jazz. Their format ranged from Chick Corea, to Weather Report, George Benson, Earl Klug, Al Jareau, BB King, Miles Davis, Robben Ford, Pat Metheny, and even Eric Clapton.
It seems that the term "smooth jazz" was invented as a marketing term for the radio stations and therefore, they defined what the term meant.
It's such a broad category that it is almost a meaningless term, at least to me.
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Originally Posted by richb2
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sirius has a station called watercolors which is exactly what you describe. You would never hear the artists you describe above on the other jazz station ie Real Jazz (another sirius station).
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Earth Wind and Fire has nothing to do with this discussion, unless you are equating their silly, dated clothing to Smooth Jazz. Here is a disco song. It has very little to do with this discussion.
Last edited by richb2; 01-08-2014 at 02:35 PM.
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To clarify, in spirit of Duke Ellington, I like all the artists I've mentioned in that long post.
And here's one of those groovie disco bands, one of the best to my ears. I think they clasiffy them as House:
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Vladan : to me smooth jazz and disco are two different things. It seems to me that you put all the genres that have jazz elements but are not straight ahead jazz in the smooth jazz category.
But it doesn't matter really, cause in the end the only thing important is to answer this simple question : is it good, or bad ?
And speaking of that, I don't agree with the famous Duke quote : I don't like bad music !
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Originally Posted by Professor Jones
Whether music is good or bad is so subjective that your statement almost amounts to saying "I don't like music I don't like." Whether it's good or bad depends on the criteria you use to make the assessment. I actually think that musical taste is often very tribal and we all miss out on a lot of music enjoyment but closing doors to some that are not a part of our tribe. I am certainly guilty of that.
Cheers, Colin.
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Originally Posted by ColinO
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I had to do it, I typed "disco and smooth jazz" in google, and here's the first choice:
more-more-more-smooth-jazz-disco-hits
and just for the sake of guitar and to the point of I'm not the only one who can see the connection...
smooth-jazz-guitar-disco-jazz_music
Of course, I don't want to say disco and smooth jazz are the same thing, but I really find them naturally connected in sound.
More on genres.
Unless you do Classics or Jazz, you can do Rock, or you can do Dance.
If you however do Classsics, or Jazz, within them you can do either rock, or dance.
However, if you choose the dance part in any of above, you can either Rock 'n' Roll, or Disco.
That's why you have both Wagner and Strauss, Benson and Miles, M People and Prodigy, Led Zeppelin and Zappa, and so on and on ...
I prefer Rock (and Roll), but I like Disco all the same.Last edited by Vladan; 01-08-2014 at 04:49 PM.
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I was driving around today listening to WJJZ. I think they have fairly standard play list. Three songs in a row, ending with a George Benson track had exactly the same drum track. Rock, Country, and Pop have much more varied and creative rhythm sections. Another observation is that instrumentalists solo throughout entire tracks. The Jazz greats never did that. I've also noticed that smooth jazz is mining the R&B hits of the past. Yesterday I heard a smooth jazz version of Steely Dan track. That is just wrong. The rendition was completely soulless. Smooth Jazz is basically R&B dumbed down, Disco dumbed down.
"Straight ahead Jazz" seems to be anything recorded mostly before the early '80's. There are no outlets for Contemporary Jazz, some of the Jazz Rock Fusion, people in the middle. There are many creative musicians that exist between the boundaries of styles. If Winton Marsalis says someone is not, then they are not Jazz.
Interestingly, I find "new" artists on Pandora and Spotify.
Ed T.
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Did you hear this one?
Nothing wrong with it in my book. In fact this conversation has inspired me to do either Night Fever or How Deep Is Your Love from Saturday Night Fever in either reggae or perhaps bossa or perhaps swing. I might be wrong but I think people in their 40-70's would love to hear songs they know done in a different way.
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I wonder where these kids would fit?
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They'd fit into the bad haircut victims unit.
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Originally Posted by RonD
Her hair is perfect. (oops, werewolves of london...)
Ed
The one second cuts in music videos drives me nuts. Make a version for old coots like me. Set up two cameras, turn them on then don't touch them.Last edited by edspyhill01; 01-09-2014 at 11:41 AM.
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Originally Posted by RonD
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Fourplay are kind of the kings of smooth jazz.
Jeff Lorber is excellent too.
Bob James (all work)
George Benson (more recent work)
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Originally Posted by edspyhill01
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After being negative and basing my opinion one one source I wanted to suggest Music Choice. I get as part of my Verizon cable subscription. Their Smooth Jazz station has a very good and varied playlist. The playlist includes some nice guitar tracks. I also find I can build agood playlist on Pandora, just takes time to click the thumbs up or down.
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Listened to Lonnie Liston most of the day...zoot as all get out...and plenty of Soul...
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"Zoot" reminds me of one of my favorite albums, "Two Jims and a Zoot", Jimmy Raney, Jim Hall, Zoot Sims, Ed
Blowin in the Wind
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