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Hats off to Harry (Guitaroscar) for putting it well. Reminds me of a song by John Hiatt:
Perfectly Good Guitar (excerpted)
Well he threw one down from the top of the stairs
Beautiful women were standing everywhere
They all got wet when he smashed that thing
But off in the dark you could hear somebody sing
Oh it breaks my heart to see those stars
Smashing a perfectly good guitar
I don't know who they think they are
Smashing a perfectly good guitar
There out to be a law with no bail
Smash a guitar and you go to jail
With no chance for early parole
You don't get out till you get some soul
Oh it breaks my heart to see those stars
Smashing a perfectly good guitar
I don't know who they think they are
Smashing a perfectly good guitar
(Not holding my breath waiting on Malmstein to cover this one.)
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08-27-2008 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Guitarsmurf
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pass was guilty often, in my opinion, of playing WAY too many notes--seemingly especially when he played with niels henning orsted peterson. i don't know what it was, but those cats brought out the worst in each other, as far as i'm concerned.
joe was a hell of a technician, which could qualify him as "shred," but he had the capacity to be a great, soulful, even subdued player too--as mentioned before, ella really brought out the best in him--at least in this aspect.
i'm not a fan of shred, but i get it, and i respect that "master your instrument" mentality. i think some boppers fall closer to the shred thing (y'know, bird and diz, bud, etc.) and it works in that context. it works well.
my favorite joe on record is on johnny griffin's grab this. tasty, and funky as hell.
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I have always equated shred with the exceptionally fast playing of jillions of notes, thus 'shredding the fretboard'. It can be with purpose (a la Paganini.. even though he was a violinist), or without purpose (not focusing on melody or content as much as playing really fast because you can).
I have always considered Al Di Meiola a jazz 'shredder' who plays with a lot of purpose -- Elegant Gypsy anyone?
I am hesitant to say Joe Pass was a shredder, because although he could play fast it was not the crux of his playing.
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I agree, but he could, if he wanted to, just shred up a storm.
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I totally agree with Derek. I think Dragonforce is a disgrace to the whole shred scene. Yes, they are incredibly fast, faster than anyone else but does their speedy music make any sense? Moreover, I have to say that these guys just can't produce the same skills live. They sounded incredibly off, out of tune and messy and all they have done so far is fooling people into thinking, " O speed is everything!"
I shall take something to recommend a guitarist that I feel is really underrated. He is Steve Lukather of Toto. He is the person who can produce the most memorable and delightful solos and combined them with blistering speed (and he is incredibly fast too) at essential moments. I like parts of his solos when he goes diatonically upwards in thirds or other intervals instead of how most shredders would just run up the scale normally.
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I think "shred" is stupid. I don't look at music that way and if I did than I would be fooling myself. Music is about emotion and open communication, not how many notes it takes to fill a meausre. That kind of thinking is just ego-driven more than anything.
Don't get me wrong, I used to be into playing fast when I was 11 years old. The older you get, the more you realize that music isn't a competition. It's about realizing the true inner beauty and honesty of yourself and trying to get that across in a way that's not egotistical or that has to do with self-gratification.
I can't tell you how many guitarists I've talked to that are like "Man, look what I can do. Am I fast or what?" I mean seriously so what? It doesn't prove anything. What matters is how you play those notes and how they help the composition.
That's my two cents.
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Originally Posted by gravyTrain
But as Al Di Meola's career progressed, he became less concerned with shredding and put more effort into making interesting music: "The Infinite Desire" or "The Grande Passion" anyone?
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Originally Posted by frisellfan19
I'm not quite sure if I agree with you or not so I'll just lay my opinion out there and see if they line up. I don't think stupid is a good word to describe shred. I think it's a form of expression.... but I think it's a very one dimensional form of expression. All the greats were capable of "shred-like" speed. For example: on Dave Brubeck Quartet's "Jazz at Oberlin" Paul Desmond (one of the least-shred guys ever to pick up any instrument) busts out a four measure line of eighth note triplets in a version of How High the Moon that's booking at about 240 bpm. That's flat out sick. However, the difference is that the "shredders" seem to use their technique as a crutch while the greats use their mind-boggling technique as part of a bigger picture. The technique is more of a tool. I equate shredding (and I'm extending the tool metaphor here) to trying to build a house with nothing but a screwdriver. The guys that really know what their doing always keep a screwdriver at the ready but they know it's ridiculous to bring nothing else to the worksite.
I like metaphors.
Good night.
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Originally Posted by DMatthewsBand07
Playing fast DOES NOT impress me, DMatthewsBand07. What DOES impress me is a musician who can be musical and lyrical. I love Oscar Peterson, but you know what I love most about him? It wasn't how fast he was, it was the heart he heart behind everything that made what he played sound appealing. Oscar could certainly make jaws drop with his flawless technique, but it was the passion and fire he had that made him one of the greats.
Bill Evans was an incredibly fast pianist when it was time to play fast, but it was how he played the notes and chords that made him sound different. Everything he touched, he put his soul into it and you could hear it.
I think if you're listening to music just to hear some guy rip lick after than lick, then you're missing the big picture, which is: music = heart and soul.
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DMathewsBand & Frisellfan
You're both in agreement here (and I agree with both of your views on shred), but, FFan, why are you so aggressively responding to something DM never said? If you're being sarcastic, don't bother, it rarely works on a forum such as this. If you're not being sarcastic, then just chill out a bit. Actually, having read your comments over the past year, most of your arguments are because you appear to read things in other people's posts that are not there.
DMBand - your analogy with house building is pretty good, Frisellfan could be the Building Regulations Inspector, finding faults where none exist.
love & peace
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Originally Posted by frisellfan19Originally Posted by DMatthewsBand07
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Originally Posted by musicalbodger
No, I'm merely reading "between the lines." I'm not going to "chill out a bit." You may not like what I say or how I say it, musicalbodger, but I'm not aruging with anyone. I'm just giving my opinion. Take it or leave it, really doesn't matter to me, but if you have to tell somebody to "chill out a bit," then the only one who needs to is you, because you're the one who said it in the first place. So to you: chill out a bit and let me and DMatthewsBand, talk.
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Originally Posted by DMatthewsBand07
DMatthewsBand07, I have been playing the guitar for almost 18 years. You know what I've learned in those 18 years of playing guitar? Every other guitarists has a different outlook than I do. Does that make me better? No. Does that make me inferior? Of course not, we are two different people with two different opinions. That's it. My opinion isn't any better than yours.
The guy who told me to "chill out a bit" takes himself too seriously. He doesn't understand that it's okay for people to have disagreements. I tell people how I feel and I compromise those feelings for anything.
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Originally Posted by frisellfan19
Originally Posted by frisellfan19
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Originally Posted by mrbeantheconqueror
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Originally Posted by DMatthewsBand07
The most musical "shredder" I've ever heard was Shawn Lane (1963-2003). His best work was with jazz/fusion bassist Jonas Hellborg and drummer Jeff Sipe. He was timed to be the fastest guitarist of all time, but he could play so lyrically, which is very rare with those types of guys. I had a chance to meet him one time, but for some reason I couldn't do it. Super nice guy and an amazing musician.
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I don't really like to listen to speed guitar. When I think of great electric guitarists I think of Pink Floyd, or maybe Mick Ronson.
Sailor
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Originally Posted by frisellfan19
Originally Posted by Sailor
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Shawn Lane! The Master. What a wonderful musician. Yes, he could shred like a madman, but his music very rarely showcased it and was simply beautiful. That's really the only word to describe it. Beautiful. He is greatly missed.
Smitty
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Originally Posted by Smitty
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10-25-2008, 02:02 PM #97CC323 Guest
Yeah. What's really impressive to me is the context of shawn lane. On youtube there's a video of him doing a wanky rock solo, but he's 16 and it's 1979, which is before everyone else but EVH. While I really enjoy his Powers of Ten and Tritone Fascination albums quite a bit, I do agree that the stuff with Hellborg was pretty damned incredible. BTW, have you heard of Guthrie Govan? He's one of my favorites.
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I've actually cut out early from a Satch show to get a burger.( I didn't feel so bad since I won the tickets) Great technique, but I heard all I needed to hear after 15 minutes.
I would compare this kind of playing to a magician, it's not about what one says as an artist rather it's about how many tricks can I pull off.
Hats off to the guys in this genre, there is some killer playing, but just not my thing anymore. I use to dig Vai's stuff and still feel he's an amazing talent, but I can't get passed his silly marketing strategy. I mean at least Paul Gilbert is funny, but Vai, is just a cheese. hahahaLast edited by rcaballero; 10-02-2012 at 09:40 PM.
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Listen to a Radio show here in Sweden this summer with Yngwie Malmsteen. He talked about how he became in love with the guitar and it developed to a obsession to the guitar. It was fun to hear his story from childhood to Shred Master
Last edited by jazzkatten; 10-04-2012 at 05:28 AM.
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Hm, shred has always made me think of New Age on steroids. Will Ackerman at 78 RPM (or maybe faster).
Brad
Henriksen Bud 6 w/ gig bag
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