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Originally Posted by JessJazzer
i came to jazz via the grateful dead, so it was the whole "improvise! improvise! improvise!" thing that hooked me.
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08-04-2008 12:32 PM
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i came to jazz because of synyster gates funnily enough, it fascinated me how he could imply all of these interesting harmonies over powerchords then i found out he studied jazz it sealed my fate, iv always been into the academic side of music and knew that on my degree i would have to study ALOT of jazz which i looked foward to...Syn just made me do it sooner, i spent so much time studying end exploring and most importantly enjoying that i forgot why i started to learn it to be honest. i just enjoy playing different styles
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
I think that speed is simply an effect. I used to be a big shred fan...like BIG, like Rusty Cooley and Francesco Ferrari....but since I've dove into jazz, I've noticed that (in jazz), things like distortion and altered tones, chorus and speed...they're all effects. The essence of jazz guitar is well-placed ideas and a clean, dry guitar. Speed can build tension just as altered tones can, just as Scofield and his crazy chorus and slight distortion can create tension...they're all the same.
smitty
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
So I got bored with tight metal arrangements, and frustrated with people thinking I was very close minded and just a stupid shredhead, and tired of just playing speed for speed. I wanted groove, soul, thought....music.
So I got into Charlie Hunter, John Mayer, Scofield...I really got the groove thing going. I got into Andy Timmons, Richie Kotzen. My groove got better, my improv better. I became more creative and cleaner...and slightly slower. But that was necessary. It made me think about music. Along came Larry Carlton and Robben Ford. Name any other tasty players.
Then I found Pat Martino doing "Sunny" and decided I wanted jazz. I got all the horn players. I started reading Harlem Renaiisance poetry. This all happened just this past year. I wanted to know what the hell those jazz cats were doing, and how they were doing it. Out the window went harmonic minor and phrygian dominant...in came simple dorian and the altered and diminished scales.
And since early 2008 I've been immersed in jazz. I'm still not that great at it, but I'm such a completely different person because of it. More chilled out, more thoughtful, more humble. Jazz has really made me a better person and I'm thankful for it. I still listen to Jason Becker, Dream Theater, Nevermore, Into Eternity...and I want to play like Guthrie and Greg Howe, but I'm studying to be a good musician, all around, and jazz is my favorite vessel for this journey. I feel that it prepares me for any style. And it's just so much fun!!
Long post over.
smitty
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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its good to hear alot of us have a background in it, shred taught me about technique, without what i call absolute technique you cant play ABSOLUTELY eveything that comes into your mind.
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Yeah DMB, I'm the same way. I got tired of the competitiveness of rock. It's just all a popularity competition: who's faster? who's flashier? who bangs more girls? who can drink more? All of that falls under that, and I got tired of it.
Chillin with a few jazzers is the greatest, whether we talk music or not. It just seems like I relate to jazzers the best--they're more down to earth. Of course all of this is a generality, but still fairly accurate.
And I agree with Misstreater to some extent--I've said what you said before, anyway. You must have good technique to achieve what you want to achieve. You've got to be able to play what you hear, right?
My only problem is that people don't always notice how little time they have to spend working on technique. I choose one legato and one staccato technique to work on every day for around 45 minutes. I maintain my technique as well as I did when I worked on all the techniques for an hour and a half a day.
One needs to realize that whenever you're playing music--like, ever--you're "practicing" technique. "Technique" is the ability to play what you want to play, am I right? So if you're playing, you're "practicing" technique. So besides the true blue technique practice, I also choose a scale and learn that...say, the half/whole in the keys of C, E, and Ab, and I get inside and outside of that scale in those 3 keys. I learn everything there is to learn to be able to use the scale effectively in a musical context. By that time, my fingers are tired, so I'll probably work on the chords inside of those scales. Then I'll get a standard, sight read it, learn it, memorize it, know it; then I'll solo over it, trying to apply the scale I just worked on. So this entire time, my technique is being sharpened and honed. My "technique practice" is more of a really long warm-up.
smitty
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so, ok, Smitty............... when do you eat?
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i think thats a good practice regime, ur a full time musician?
i also think that you can maintain a technique by doing it for ten minutes easily, but i bet the hours and hours of previous work helped!
i like that regime alot actually, might give that a go
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im very surprised to see this thread get more replies than the blues thread, pleased too
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Originally Posted by MissMisstreater
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same here guys, my practice is usually all technique orienatated though, workin with the metronome....
smittys approach seems very practical
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I spend a lot of time a songs and not very much on technique. I usually spend about an hour combined on reading through tunes and technique. A lot more on tunes.
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Originally Posted by DMatthewsBand07
But yeah, I've just noticed that I hate practicing to a strict regiment...like, for years all I've done is say "this for this amount of time every day" and I just got bored. So now I've got a few general categories that rely off of each other that I practice for a general amount of time per day. Because realistically, if I practice one main theme every day, I get a lot more done...like for example Bird is my theme, I'll probably practice alternate picking and hammer ons/pull offs for my technique, find a head and practice it, learn the chords, find some scales to use, practice those, solo over it. All in all, I get a lot done, so I feel accomplished once I'm finished.
So yeah, after school, I generally teach guitar (my job) or mow a lawn (my other job) and then get home and eat/do homework. After that, it's all practice, which, depending on the amount of homework I've got, may mean that I'm practicing late into the night, which means that I'm a caffeine addict. And sometimes, even, I wake up in the morning and practice chords before scale, though that's pretty rare.
Because I feel so accomplished, by the weekend, I just don't want to practice. So I may have a gig, and if not, I'll probably not touch a guitar the entire weekend. I'll sleep and hang out with friends and see my girlfriend. And if I do practice, it's probably piano or bass or something. And sometimes I even have a stretch of days where I'm just not interested in guitar, or, rarely, music. Like, when I drive, I drive without the radio. It's weird, but refreshing.
I think that the most common problem with peoples' practice regiments and expectations of themselves is that they overlook their humanity. Practice to the point of insanity and a lack of social skills is stupid. Practice, to me, is just preparation for gigs and a career in music, once I reach that point in my life.
smitty
Oh by the way, DMB, I like your tunes on myspace. I'm sending you a friend request. You've got a great tone (regardless of the not-perfect quality) and you're a great all around player.
My myspace is myspace.com/alexsmithproject.
The first two songs, "Shadow of a Doubt" and "Redline" are more...meh...Andy Timmons/John Petrucci style ("Redline" is the exact same song structure as "Glasgow Kiss") so they aren't really the best examples of my playing for this site. And they're over a year old, so listening to them is such a blast to the past, because over this past year I've matured so much as a player. I really dislike those recordings, but hey, whatever.
The last song is brand new, the solo to Greg Howe's "Crack It Way Open," which is my Berklee Audition song for the Guitar Sessions coming up in a couple weeks. I transcribed it and wrote out the score, and then a friend and I recorded it last night. It actually could've been a little bit better (there's some sloppy parts), but we were so tired and hungry by the end of the recording session that we just decided to stop where we were . It doesn't matter really anyway, because when I'm Berklee I'm going to use the track minus the lead guitar (as a backing track) and just play it over that live.
I don't have any jazz recorded, so I'm feeling pretty sheepish...But rest assured, I'll get some up as soon as possible.Last edited by Smitty; 08-06-2008 at 04:56 PM. Reason: myspace stuff
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Dude... This is getting creepy.
I teach music at the local music store and have two extra summer jobs although it looks like right now I'm gonna get a second solid job for the school year. I too practice very late and very early because I have little time during the day. I too am a terrible caffeine addict. I've had three Laaaarge cups of coffee already today (I give up coffee every year for Lent... not pretty).
I also went through your same practice evolution. For a while I would spend waaaaay too much time with a metronome everyday (a little is good but too much isn't) and guitar started to feel like a desk job to me. During soccer season this year I wasn't getting anything done so I scrapped technique and worked only on tunes and got a lot done. So now I just sort of set a goal for the week and work towards that. It turns out to be a lot of tunes and whatever technique I feel like will assist me with the tunes or artist of style I'm studying for the week.
Thanks for the compliments on the playing... I think a friend of mine who drums for the school jazz band is coming over in the next couple days so I'll try to get some stuff up there with a drummer.
I'm not gonna lie though.... the similarities are getting a bit strange.
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don't worry fellas, you're just guitar players. that's how we are. i drink a pot of coffee a day, have three jobs (high school teacher, 20 guitar students a week and a weekly gig at the retirement home...and no, i'm not kidding about the last one) and practice late at night all summer because it's the only free time i have!
as for metronomes--if you want to play jazz, throw it away and find a drummer. a metronome won't bust your balls if you don't swing.
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Yes, but a drummer can't really accompany me at 3:00am can he?
On a (very slightly) similar note, I've found that my favorite thing in the world is swung 16ths on a slow ballad. It just seems like it swings SO much harder.
DMB, we gotta meet up someday brotha.
smitty
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Yeah man. I dig the 16ths. I can't make the eighths swing. I don't know if that's normal or if it comes with more playing but the eighth notes on ballads never seem to swing for me.
And I guess a drummer could help you out at 3:00 am. He'd be my kinda drummer.
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Originally Posted by DMatthewsBand07
smitty
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Nice... I've been working on All of You. Cole Porter song. I like him.
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Joe Pass is shred.
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Shred? This is the machine next to the photocopier, right.
I watched a dvd called G3 which had Joe Satriani, Steve Vai, and Mr Malguided...oops sorry, Malstreen or something. Anyway at the end of the latter's set, this goofy wanker smashed a Strat on the stage.
When Hendricks did this it was original showmanship, also Hendricks could really play the guitar.
When Ygnueeee Malbreath did it, it was a wank; this was the climax of his set, 20 minutes of very fast scales over no particular harmony, with the odd, ripped off classical line thrown in. All played very fast.
Putting aside the fact that musical instruments are luxuries we are blessed with, does this tool have any idea of how many 14 year old kids are out there with twice his talent but no money for a decent instrument?
This was like watching someone waste food.
Finally, in disgust I removed the dvd, which will make a great drink coaster, and put on an Earl Hines & Coleman Hawkins DVD. Now, Hines could shred. Those piano keys practically glowed! This was recorded in the 50's I believe. Not only could he shred, but he had taste, discretion, creativity, melody, harmony, rhythm, and so on. Hawkins didn't play too fast, just beautifully.
Joe Pass was no slouch either, and unlike mentalcase Malstrummer, understood harmony, music, taste, and displayed it in all his recordings.
Don't recall him ever smashing a guitar either. But of course, Joe didn't need theatrics; he could play.
That's my rant for the day
Thankyou. Keep smiling.
Harry
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you raised a smile.
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haha. And what a quality rant it was.
Yeah, I got my first Tal Farlow album yesterday (Return of Tal Farlow: 1969) and that just totally dispelled any lingering subconcious belief in the shredders. That guy can freakin' gun it. Tastefully also. Really cool stuff.
Yeah I always sort of wondered what happened to a musician having respect for his instrument. Hendrix and Townshend were inovators - I can live with that. When was the last time you saw Clapton smash The Black Strat, or B.B. King throw Lucille into his amplifier speaker... Joe Pass just sat on a stool in the middle of a stage and blew people away.
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Malmsteen started out really great. If you listen to the original recording of "Far Beyond The Sun" for example, you can hear greatness. Unfortunately somewhere along the lines he got lost and he seems "Far Beyond Recovery" right now. Sad.
Vai's great because he can create a vast range of different textures in his music. Satriani when you listen closely is heavily influenced by the blues and people like Jimmy Page or Hendrix.
Pure shred just for the sake of shred like Rusty Cooley bores me to death after 5 minutes. It's impressive he can play all that, but it's just not very musically relevant. Even Dream Theater. Their first few albums were great because they had "songs". Now it's just one blowing vehicle after another.
If shred is the mastery of ones instrument then it shouldn't just be about speed.
On the jazz side, I don't know how poor Joe Pass got mixed up in this. To me the greatest prowess of Joe isn't his single note playing at all. It's all his stuff for solo guitar. Some of his greatest work to me are the albums he did with Ella Fitzgerald. He's just feeding her chords that are intricate and artsy, but inobtrusive enough so they don't get in the way of the singer/soloist. There's mastery of an instrument for you.
Or Wes Montgomery. Just listen to the solo on "Unit 7" or have a look at the transcription and then realize that he just sat down one day and just improvised this solo. Far more impressive to me than running up and down scales at finger-blurring speeds.
Peripheral Gear, NWD
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