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I know the diiference between jazz andsmooth jazz. Imho smooth jazz is a mix of real jazz and blues and soul and latin and gypsy and whatever. Without getting into "a deep" discussion as which is better or why, can anyone tell me if syncopation is used in smooth jazz?
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07-09-2011 08:48 AM
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Yes, it can.
Though i'd disagree with your definition of "smooth jazz." Your description makes it sound cool.
I guess I think of smooth jazz as "instrumental adult contemporary r&b," music for dentist's offices and parties with boxes of white zinfandel...
And yes, if I could make a good buck doing it, i'd gladly shave, get a tan, buy some linen pants and play those octaves till my fingers bled.
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I think synchopation is part of smooth jazz. I'm not a fan of smooth jazz but I heard a cut yesterday that convinced me that smooth jazz can be real jazz. The soloist was really playing some nice lines, not the usual boring cliches you hear on many recordings. I don't think either style is bad or good, just different.
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I'll add that Mr.B has the right definition of smooth jazz. It may seem too tame for some but there are a lot of people that love elevator music for what ever reason.
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Please, no sermons on a Saturday. So I think you said you heard some smooth jazz where the playing was cool. But did it use syncopation?
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Let ME add that I wonder why you think it is too tame for you? But, honestly, I am not out to convert anyone. I think yoi are thinking kenny g? Right? Whatever.
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Some of it is too tame for me...
There's some stuff I can kinda dig...fourplay, yellowjackets, some sanborn, some benson...just like jazz is too big of a term maybe smooth jazz is too...I mean, smooth jazz started with the CTI stuff, and a lot of that stuff smokes!
I just lose interest when it sounds like the whole tune was generated on a korg workstation keyboard and then a horn was overdubbed on top...a lot of that stuff doesn't have any improv either, often you'll just hear another overdubbed sax play harmony for another section of the tune...
But this thread is about syncopation...which of course, pops up in smooth jazz plenty of times...
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Originally Posted by richb2
Second, where in my post does it say that it's too tame for me? Some of it, I can listen to without getting bored but I'm generally not a fan of smooth jazz. Why am I not a fan of smooth jazz? Because I am not. That's it. I'm a bebop fan and that's because I like it. Why, because I do. That's it. I added those last two questions in case you wanted to ask me.
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The smooth jazz I listen too is more synchopated than the the traditional jazz I listen too... Some smooth jazz I'm thinking of: Fourplay, Yellowjackets, Weather Report, Robin Ford, Larry Carlton... check out Spain by Chick Corea.
Try to read the Real Book vs. the Real Book II... The Real Book II has much more smooth jazz, you can often tell when it's smooth jazz by looking at the ryhtmic figures, much more difficult rhthmic figures. Smooth jazz is much more likely to have synchopated 1/16th note figures and be funky, it's hard to read. In, traditional jazz swing 1/8ths and triplets are prevalent, easier to read.
Not saying it's better, just more synchopated, right now I'd prefer listening to Jim Hall.Last edited by fep; 07-09-2011 at 02:11 PM.
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I'd say most upbeat stuff has a good syncopated r&b/funk groove happening. They call it smooth, because they took the sharp edges off it, so it won't cut your head.
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Thanks guys. That pretty much answers my question. I think smooth jazz is too big a term and includes both Kenny G and Larry Carlton. The smooth jazz I really like is Norman Brown and Russ Freeman.
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O.k., now I see where all the confusion is coming from. Rich, you are definitely right when you say that smooth jazz is too big a term. It's lumping too many styles into one catch all phrase. I went and listened to some Norman Brown and Russ Freeman and believe me, those guys really can play and the music they do play is good. That's the stuff I like and can listen to for more than one or two cuts. The stuff I don't like is when they call someone like Kenny G jazz when he pulls off one uninspiring solo after another. Same thing with a bunch of other musicians lumped in with smooth jazz. The best term I can use for the resulting music is boring. It may sound nice for a song or two but after that, it's the same thing over and over again lulling you into a groggy hypnotic state. I remember someone recommending a new musician by the name of Yanni (we all know this guy now) who played jazz. I then saw a Yanni concert on the tube and got bored right out of my socks within the first ten minutes. Besides the musicians who played some solos made loads of goofy, overemotional faces seemingly adding what I don't know to their performances. Everybody in the band was doing that. It made the whole thing look as phony as a 7 dollar bill. This is the stuff that's too tame for me. It might as well be Lawrence Welk or Guy Lombardo. For the record, there is nothing wrong with any of the musicians in the LW or GL bands. The music is just too plain for my tastes. Old school jazz guys call that square.
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Personal opinion here, no flames please!
I cannot stand smooth jazz. It is way too plain vanilla. It all sounds the same to me, with the same sterile pseudo-funk drum track shared by all smooth jazz artists. In the old jazz that I love, primarily swing, bop, and hard bop, the gauge I use is this: Does it hit me in the heart? Is there a real passion? Does it paint pictures in my mind, or somehow trigger me to start singing improv lines? If not, I usually don't like it. That's why I personally don't care to listen to some of the guys that are technical monsters - that is, they are extremely fast, know every scale and arp inside out and upside down, but yet never seem to say anything. I hear them, and my only thought is, gee, I wonder what my wife is making for dinner?
On the other hand, give me an inspired solo like Wes did in Misty on the Smokin album and I'm all in. Now that's the ticket!
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Oh!
What about Marcus Miller? Specifically the Miles album TUTU? Smooth jazz?
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Well, this thread certainly diverted into something the OP said he didn't want (though i'd question that with the title he gave his thread) but I think if one thing can be drawn from it, it's that even the term "smooth jazz" is too big.
If you discount all of the r&b inflected funky groovin jazz out there, you'll miss out on some great stuff...just like with any genre, you have to dig a little deeper than the stuff on the surface to get at anything good...
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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You guys think that it is the way you look why Larry Carlton is earning lots and lots of money and you are eating beans? I don't think so. I have no idea how Brown or Freeman or Klugh or Carlton dress (not to mention Standring). If you could play like these guys you would already be doing it. Save your money on the pants; I think Fedex is hiring.
Last edited by richb2; 07-11-2011 at 11:58 AM.
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Originally Posted by richb2
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Of course not. But once you start playing smooth jazz, there's a look many players adopt. They need to appeal to their audience. It's like that with any product...music is a business too.
Hell, I have a uniform too when I play...since most of what I do is restaurant/martini bar type stuff, I always dress a step above my audience, which means I rock a shirt and tie, often a jacket. I don't get the gig because I dress nice, but if I wore a hawaiian shirt and cargo shorts to one of these gigs, it might not matter how good I played--I'm not getting a call back.
Smooth cats often dress to the nines, but also it's important for the record company to make them look relaxed, to reflect the image of their music. Photographers get paid good money to do this... Hence my linen pants remark...don't take it too seriously, but don't overlook the fact that music is a product, and the folks who make it often are a total package, not just talent.
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Sorry, I am just so tired of the "jazz is miles and everything else just sucks" thing. I have seen Jim Hall play a few times here in NY. I don't recall what he was wearing. But I can assure he was wearing clothes.
Last edited by richb2; 07-11-2011 at 12:17 PM.
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Now, we all know Jim was wearing a brown leather vest. That's a given.
I apologize that I probably sent the thread in the wrong direction right from the get-go.
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No prob bud. Thanks for your answers.
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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I had a nightmare one time that I was onstage with Yanni, Kenny G., Zamfir, and John Tesh all at the same time.
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Originally Posted by strumcat
Not really sounding very 'jazzy'. Is it in the...
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