November 2020 - Darn That Dream

[M-ster]

Our standard for Nov 2020 will be Darn That Dream (Jimmy Van Heusen, Eddie De Lange, 1939).

Background:
Jazz Standards Songs and Instrumentals (Darn That Dream)

[ragman1]

[christianm77]

Did this a while back

[christianm77]

Those were the days when I could put a solo jazz guitar video out on YouTube and get 15K views haha.

[ragman1]

Yes, but you were young and keen, then :-)

Nice stuff.

[mercosound]

I recorded Dream about 8 years ago. I really should lay it down again, as there are a few problems with this version. 1st among them is that I didn't have enough musical ideas to fill a solo of that length, and the chords at the very end are particularly bothersome...

That being said, it's a really great tune, and here's a version of it:

[lawson-stone]

I've ever learned this tune, nor played it. So this is a first shot at playing the head. Im using the HL Real Book backing track and doing basic chord-melody, nothing fancy.

[John A.]

I did this one last winter when I got my GJ guitar. This is the first tune I ever really figured out how to play solo, though I haven't ever recorded it entirely to my satisfaction. There are so many great versions Sarah Vaughan, Bill Evans/Jim Hall, Tal Farlow, all the horn players ...

Anyway, thar she blows ...

John

[ragman1]

Mid-month revisit. It's longish... but exquisite :-)

[ragman1]

hohoho -

Your bassline style might suit this tune, it occurs to me.

[hohoho]

hohoho -

Your bassline style might suit this tune, it occurs to me.

Thanks ragman, I'm "working on/with it"...

[lawson-stone]

So I've struggled with this tune all month and just when I think I understand how it works, I try to improvise over the changes and it falls apart on me. Alas. So this is the head and one chorus of desperately looking for chord-tones, guide tones, and places to use licks I already know. Maybe a little better than that... I am struggling with improvisation and almost didn't post this, but this is a study group so...

I'm playing the Aria Pro II PE180 into a DVMark Micro 50. The backing track is by Ralph Patt.

[mr. beaumont]

Here's 5 minutes of silliness on this tune.

[lawson-stone]

Here's 5 minutes of silliness on this tune.

That was really fun! My take-away is that sometimes I'm too "careful" with these tunes. I need to have a little more fun with them...

[ragman1]

Lawson - yours sounds better than you think it does.

[lawson-stone]

Lawson - yours sounds better than you think it does.

Thank you for that encouragement. I think sometimes we (okay, I) work on something so much we come to hate it all.

[John A.]

A little pre-turkey dreaming ...

John

[John A.]

So I've struggled with this tune all month and just when I think I understand how it works, I try to improvise over the changes and it falls apart on me. Alas. So this is the head and one chorus of desperately looking for chord-tones, guide tones, and places to use licks I already know. Maybe a little better than that... I am struggling with improvisation and almost didn't post this, but this is a study group so...

I'm playing the Aria Pro II PE180 into a DVMark Micro 50. The backing track is by Ralph Patt.

You definitely stayed with the changes and had some good ideas, especially on the bridge. I like the way you play the head, too.

John

[lawson-stone]

You definitely stayed with the changes and had some good ideas, especially on the bridge. I like the way you play the head, too.

John

Thanks for that. I’m getting a better feel for the the flow of the changes as I work with it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hohoho]

Thanks for the nice and inspiring contributions this month!!

Here is my "effort" in C: 1st chorus improv, 2nd chorus more melody

[ragman1]

I like the sound of that, hohoho. Can you post the backing by itself?

[mr. beaumont]

So I've struggled with this tune all month and just when I think I understand how it works, I try to improvise over the changes and it falls apart on me. Alas. So this is the head and one chorus of desperately looking for chord-tones, guide tones, and places to use licks I already know. Maybe a little better than that... I am struggling with improvisation and almost didn't post this, but this is a study group so...

I'm playing the Aria Pro II PE180 into a DVMark Micro 50. The backing track is by Ralph Patt.

I think your chord melody sounds really nice-- I'd just pay attention to time. It sounds like you're trying to sit right on the beat, which causes you to lose it in a few places.

I feel like your time relaxes a bunch when you get into your improv a bit. Some nice ideas, and it gets better as it goes on and you get more comfortable.

Keep it up!

[KirkP]

Here’s a rough shot at a solo arrangement. I’m still trying to internalize the changes and working on finger mechanics, so the rhythmic feel isn’t great. I’m alternating practicing this slow and deliberately vs. faster and relaxed, with the hope I can merge the two approaches into something more interesting than either.

[ragman1]

Here’s a rough shot at a solo arrangement. I’m still trying to internalize the changes and working on finger mechanics, so the rhythmic feel isn’t great. I’m alternating practicing this slow and deliberately vs. faster and relaxed, with the hope I can merge the two approaches into something more interesting than either.

Very nice, Kirk. Lovely and simple. Just what doctor ordered!

[hohoho]

I like the sound of that, hohoho. Can you post the backing by itself?

Thanks ragman!
Here's a new take of the backing. Recorded with click track that I did not include in the mix. Added a one bar count in click though...

Dropbox - DarnThatDream_2020_11_28_Backing.mp3 - Simplify your life

[ragman1]

Thanks, hoho, I've got it. I think you might be getting good at these :-)

It's in C, too. Thank god, I was getting bored with G!

[ragman1]

Here we go. It was fun :-)

[Ukena]

Here's a simple chord-melody arrangement at the tail end of the month.

Played on my Eastman Pagelli 2 into a Henriksen Bud 6.

[mr. beaumont]

Here's a simple chord-melody arrangement at the tail end of the month.

Played on my Eastman Pagelli 2 into a Henriksen Bud 6.

Really nice playing, and lovely tone.

[Ukena]

Thank you, Mr. B – that means a lot to me.

[KirkP]

Finger mechanics are still holding me back from the creative/expressive interpretation I'd like, but it's getting a little more fluid.

[lawson-stone]

My last shot at this song before moving on. I will say ... whatever the quality of my playing, the L5ces and Princeton Reverb Reissue sounded so nice while I was making this. Sometimes you just try not to spoil the loveliness of the guitar itself!

[John A.]

My last shot at this song before moving on. I will say ... whatever the quality of my playing, the L5ces and Princeton Reverb Reissue sounded so nice while I was making this. Sometimes you just try not to spoil the loveliness of the guitar itself!

That sounds pretty good. The head is really good, and that thing you do in the second half of the bridge with enclosures works really well. By and large, the solo has a shape to it, and you develop your ideas, so yeah, it's a solo. And it's nice to see you and Elwood are putting the band back together.

John

[lawson-stone]

That sounds pretty good. The head is really good, and that thing you do in the second half of the bridge with enclosures works really well. By and large, the solo has a shape to it, and you develop your ideas, so yeah, it's a solo. And it's nice to see you and Elwood are putting the band back together.

John

Thanks for the feedback. I know the solo is not exactly history-making, but I'm trying at least to make the changes and have a few ideas going. Hopefully "never quitting" is a good strategy!

[mr. beaumont]

Darn that Dream is a tough one to solo on! Lots of changes, and if you try hitting every one...it sounds like it.

[Samdols]

Sounding nice! Keep up the good work.

[lawson-stone]

I kept thinking I wanted to try a solo guitar treatment of this tune, so here it is. Couldn't do finger style because I ripped out the nail on my middle finger! This is the Gibson L5ces played through the Polytone Minibrute II. I've mic'd the speaker with a Shure SM57 in one channel and brought the preamp direct line into the other channel, just for fun. I'm pretty happy with how I play the tune, but not so much with the effort at improvising. Plus I found the recent changes in weather had wrought a need for adjustment that I discovered only when recording this clip!

[ragman1]

Lawson -

May I say something? This is genuine comment, it's not supposed to be critical or in any way negative, quite the contrary.

That's one of the best arrangements I've seen you do. It's excellent, good chords, not too many redundant lines or sounds, etc. It's a pleasure to watch you.

BUT there's no feeling in it. It's as though you're playing it like a chore, like you're saying to yourself 'Oh, god, here we go again, I'll just churn it out'. And out it comes.

Take a breath and perform it, express some sentiment in it, play it like you meant it. If you did that it would be worthy of the Showcase thread. Really. Honest.

Okay? You don't mind? Good :-)

[lawson-stone]

Lawson -

May I say something? This is genuine comment, it's not supposed to be critical or in any way negative, quite the contrary.

That's one of the best arrangements I've seen you do. It's excellent, good chords, not too many redundant lines or sounds, etc. It's a pleasure to watch you.

BUT there's no feeling in it. It's as though you're playing it like a chore, like you're saying to yourself 'Oh, god, here we go again, I'll just churn it out'. And out it comes.

Take a breath and perform it, express some sentiment in it, play it like you meant it. If you did that it would be worthy of the Showcase thread. Really. Honest.

Okay? You don't mind? Good :-)

I don't mind your comment at all. I honestly don't know what you mean though. I love this song, I love playing it, I didn't rehearse or do lots of takes. I'd been playing it all day, really enjoying it, and decided to capture it. I liked it enough to post. I am not someone who "emotes" when i play. I don't make hot-faces, grimace, faux-dance, or whatever. So I'm not offended by your remark, but I do think you simply are asking me to be someone I'm not. Just because someone doesn't put on an emotional show doesn't mean they "don't mean it." I didn't phone this in at all. Much of it is more or less spontaneous. I have developed several approaches to different parts of the tune, but when I played it I hadn't really decided which I wanted to use.

But the overwhelming impression I have from your comments is positive, and I'm grateful for your feedback.

[kris]

I don't mind your comment at all. I honestly don't know what you mean though. I love this song, I love playing it, I didn't rehearse or do lots of takes. I'd been playing it all day, really enjoying it, and decided to capture it. I liked it enough to post. I am not someone who "emotes" when i play. I don't make hot-faces, grimace, faux-dance, or whatever. So I'm not offended by your remark, but I do think you simply are asking me to be someone I'm not. Just because someone doesn't put on an emotional show doesn't mean they "don't mean it." I didn't phone this in at all. Much of it is more or less spontaneous. I have developed several approaches to different parts of the tune, but when I played it I hadn't really decided which I wanted to use.

But the overwhelming impression I have from your comments is positive, and I'm grateful for your feedback.

Dear lawson-stone,
Do not worry be happy.
I think - ragman is not a jazz expert...
The sound of your guitar /L5/ is great!
Jazzingly
kris
ps.
Happy New Year 2021

[grahambop]

Lawson, I thought that was very good.

To satisfy the critics, you could always do some work on your guitar-face technique.

[christianm77]

I kept thinking I wanted to try a solo guitar treatment of this tune, so here it is. Couldn't do finger style because I ripped out the nail on my middle finger! This is the Gibson L5ces played through the Polytone Minibrute II. I've mic'd the speaker with a Shure SM57 in one channel and brought the preamp direct line into the other channel, just for fun. I'm pretty happy with how I play the tune, but not so much with the effort at improvising. Plus I found the recent changes in weather had wrought a need for adjustment that I discovered only when recording this clip!

Nice job!

[ragman1]

I am not someone who "emotes" when i play. I don't make hot-faces, grimace, faux-dance, or whatever. So I'm not offended by your remark, but I do think you simply are asking me to be someone I'm not..

By feeling, I don't mean emoting. All that agonised grimacing and pained expression stuff, couldn't agree more, dreadful, like they urgently need to visit the bathroom! No, I definitely don't mean that. Nor, of course, would I ever suggest to anyone to be something other than they are.

I think I mean playing with the heart as well as the head. After all, it's really a song with lyrics. Well, originally anyway. If one's been playing it all day I expect there would be a sort of over-familiarity. I suffer from that myself, getting to the stage where I can chuck it out with abandon, but I usually find it comes out a bit sloppy on hearing it later. I'm not suggesting yours was sloppy, it wasn't, I'm just saying. There's a sort of fine line between feeling relaxed enough to do it without tension and getting so into it that it becomes a bit nonchalant.

I meant what I said about it, though. I thought it flowed nicely and was pretty good. But I also thought 'What's this tune saying? What's it about?'. See, if you'd played it badly it wouldn't apply. Whoever it was wouldn't be ready for this kind of suggestion. But in this case I think the whole thing could be uplifted to another level, that's all. After all, mere technique is one thing and dynamic expression another.

So I wouldn't want you to misunderstand me, it was all meant to helpful and add more to the mixture, that's all it was about. I'm sorry if it hit the wrong spot, nothing meant.

[Dutchbopper]

Here's my take. I played it with a bit of a Tal vibe. He sometimes plays ballads in chord melody style almost devoid of emotion and romanticism. His "Misty" comes to mind. I like that approach a lot.

The end lick is quartal harmony ... The arrangement is my own.

[Dutchbopper]

See, if you'd played it badly it wouldn't apply. Whoever it was wouldn't be ready for this kind of suggestion. But in this case I think the whole thing could be uplifted to another level, that's all. After all, mere technique is one thing and dynamic expression another.

Sometimes the lyrics of a standard are so corny and dated that I can not even take the feeling it is supposed to convey seriously. "Misty" comes to mind ...Glad I am not a singer.

DB

[cmajor9]

We live in a different time... when tenderer emotions are harder to come by uncynically.

[lawson-stone]

By feeling, I don't mean emoting. All that agonised grimacing and pained expression stuff, couldn't agree more, dreadful, like they urgently need to visit the bathroom! No, I definitely don't mean that. Nor, of course, would I ever suggest to anyone to be something other than they are.

I think I mean playing with the heart as well as the head. After all, it's really a song with lyrics. Well, originally anyway. If one's been playing it all day I expect there would be a sort of over-familiarity. I suffer from that myself, getting to the stage where I can chuck it out with abandon, but I usually find it comes out a bit sloppy on hearing it later. I'm not suggesting yours was sloppy, it wasn't, I'm just saying. There's a sort of fine line between feeling relaxed enough to do it without tension and getting so into it that it becomes a bit nonchalant.

I meant what I said about it, though. I thought it flowed nicely and was pretty good. But I also thought 'What's this tune saying? What's it about?'. See, if you'd played it badly it wouldn't apply. Whoever it was wouldn't be ready for this kind of suggestion. But in this case I think the whole thing could be uplifted to another level, that's all. After all, mere technique is one thing and dynamic expression another.

So I wouldn't want you to misunderstand me, it was all meant to helpful and add more to the mixture, that's all it was about. I'm sorry if it hit the wrong spot, nothing meant.

I am not trying to be stubborn, but I'm getting a little irritated that you think you know what was going on in my head and heart. You think I don't know what the tune was "saying." You're presuming to read my mind. I wasn't tired of the tune, I was feeling quite comfortable with it, even thought I'd found a sweet spot in not having to think of every change.

I know you intend to be helpful. But this is also precisely the kind of critique that I think is off base, whoever it's aimed at. We do not know what's in someone's heart and mind. We do not know how they feel about the tune or what it's "saying" (if a tune can "say" anything?). Everyone has different mannerisms, different posture, different expressions. None of it tells you what's in their heart and you can't know that. To just say "You aren't feeling it" when it's live and you are physically with the musician, that's meaningful. But watching a clip, I just don't think we can do that.

I hate to sound defensive, but your claim to know my intentions and feelings is just wrong. I imagine with greater mastery I can play this and adopt the kind of phrasing and manner that you'd consider "really performing" the tune, but even then, that could be just phoning it in as well.

I respect your viewpoint and you're musical comments are often very helpful, but this line of conversation is unfruitful, in my opinion, unless people are actually in direct interaction and playing/listening together.

[grahambop]

I think the whole question of ‘playing with feeling’ is very subjective, it’s very much down to the perception of the listener.

I should imagine when Lawson was playing, he was primarily concerned with getting the right chords and notes out at the right place while keeping it all in time. I know that’s what I’d be concentrating on, especially when doing solo guitar improv, it’s very difficult to do well.

Actually I think I read a quote by a famous classical musician once (can’t remember who), they said if you consciously try to ‘play with emotion’, it will probably sound like crap (or something along those lines).

[Dutchbopper]

I think the whole question of ‘playing with feeling’ is very subjective, it’s very much down to the perception of the listener..

Good point. Bireli Lagrene? Pat Martino? All scales and technique, no emotion. Gimme Gary Moore or BB King for the real stuff!

DB

[lawson-stone]

Here's my take. I played it with a bit of a Tal vibe. He sometimes plays ballads in chord melody style almost devoid of emotion and romanticism. His "Misty" comes to mind. I like that approach a lot.

The end lick is quartal harmony ... The arrangement is my own.

Sometimes a very unsentimental reading of a ballad can "re-strange" the music for us and make us hear it from different angles, different perspectives. Somewhere on here someone posted a clip of "Misty" played by Larry Carlton and Tal Farlow, and oddly, Tal played no lines at all, just chord-melody improvisation, and Carlton played an over-driven strat and it was all at a faster temp than you'd expect. I thought it worked really well. I enjoyed it. Did it "honor the words" or some such? Nope. But then "Misty" was played quite some time before someone wrote words for it. I liked that performance, and I like your "Darn that Dream." I like mine too, though it's very elementary, to be sure.