March 2013 - East Of The Sun

**wizard3739** · 03-01-2013, 01:04 PM

Here is a Bill Evans Style BIAB realtracks backing track with a 4 bar intro, a standard ending and 4 choruses.
Also included: a PDF lead sheet.

backing track---->Box

PDF lead sheet---->Box

enjoy, wiz

**pkirk** · 03-05-2013, 10:21 PM

Here's some of my wanking over Howie's nice backing track: It sounds pretty much like....me...clams and all. I'l probably work up a chord-melody later in the month.

SoundClick artist: Paul Kirk - page with MP3 music downloads

Paul

**kris** · 03-06-2013, 09:33 AM

hi Paul,
Thanks a lot.
You have attack similar to G.Benson.
Very nice sounding guitar with a lot of modern lines playing.
Thanks
Kris

**Reg** · 03-06-2013, 03:06 PM

Very cool playing Paul, some great ideas. I dig the relationships your creating.

So I though I would post a somewhat playing analysis of tune and then a possible different approach to playing. Just read through and then dropped a different harmonic concept over the top. Use of constant structure Sus chords with somewhat original rhythmic heavy swing feel and still basic root motion with subs and approach chords. Tried to adjust the melody on the fly... not very hip. But that's what happens on the fly.

Ill make another hipper and cleaner version or play over Howie's version... later?

The analysis

can be very straight ahead... basically diatonic with reference to Maj, relative Min, Parallel Min. and a little secondary dom usage. Is there anything about the tune that needs explanations... I'll gladly dive in further if any one's into analysis...

**kris** · 03-06-2013, 04:18 PM

Originally Posted by Reg

Very cool playing Paul, some great ideas. I dig the relationships your creating.

So I though I would post a somewhat playing analysis of tune and then a possible different approach to playing. Just read through and then dropped a different harmonic concept over the top. Use of constant structure Sus chords with somewhat original rhythmic heavy swing feel and still basic root motion with subs and approach chords. Tried to adjust the melody on the fly... not very hip. But that's what happens on the fly.

Ill make another hipper and cleaner version or play over Howie's version... later?

The analysis

can be very straight ahead... basically diatonic with reference to Maj, relative Min, Parallel Min. and a little secondary dom usage. Is there anything about the tune that needs explanations... I'll gladly dive in further if any one's into analysis...

Thanks Reg,
Great feel and Great playing,
Jazzingly
Kris

**wizard3739** · 03-06-2013, 06:15 PM

Originally Posted by pkirk

Kris: real nice. Very solid time. I like the feel on those 16th note runs: reminds me a little of when Lenny Breau does (did) that.

It inspired me to dust off the tele.
Here's some of my wanking over Howie's nice backing track: It sounds pretty much like....me...clams and all. I'l probably work up a chord-melody later in the month.

SoundClick artist: Paul Kirk - page with MP3 music downloads

Paul

Loved it Paul! Sounds a bit like Joe Diorio with some of the intervallic lines. BTW, that is a big complement, Joe is a great guy and a great jazz guitarist. IMHO, your lines are modern, very hip and well connected.

wiz

**pkirk** · 03-06-2013, 07:00 PM

Thanks Howie, Reg, and Kris. Wow, to be compared to benson and diorio, two of my favorites...But honestly, I think my playing suffers mostly from time issues, and it shows here whenever I go into 16th notes. I think Reg was hinting at this when he commented on my takes last month on come rain or come shine: my lines tend to not end properly, and so I either rush the end of a line or clam it in an attempt to "finish on time". I've been checking out the torrid alternate picking thread and will see if I can play behind the beat more. I can place my 8th notes pretty well, but its the fast stuff where I lose the beat.

It would be nice to get more folks onto these threads.

**GuyBoden** · 03-07-2013, 06:06 AM

Originally Posted by pkirk

Kris: real nice. Very solid time. I like the feel on those 16th note runs: reminds me a little of when Lenny Breau does (did) that.

It inspired me to dust off the tele.
Here's some of my wanking over Howie's nice backing track: It sounds pretty much like....me...clams and all. I'l probably work up a chord-melody later in the month.

SoundClick artist: Paul Kirk - page with MP3 music downloads

Paul

Good playing and a nice tone, interesting lines. Do I hear some legato lines.

If I could make one suggestion, why don't you record a shorter track, analyzing this track for your best ideas.

Enjoyed.
Guy

**GuyBoden** · 03-07-2013, 06:14 AM

Originally Posted by Reg

Very cool playing Paul, some great ideas. I dig the relationships your creating.

So I though I would post a somewhat playing analysis of tune and then a possible different approach to playing. Just read through and then dropped a different harmonic concept over the top. Use of constant structure Sus chords with somewhat original rhythmic heavy swing feel and still basic root motion with subs and approach chords. Tried to adjust the melody on the fly... not very hip. But that's what happens on the fly.

Ill make another hipper and cleaner version or play over Howie's version... later?

The analysis

can be very straight ahead... basically diatonic with reference to Maj, relative Min, Parallel Min. and a little secondary dom usage. Is there anything about the tune that needs explanations... I'll gladly dive in further if any one's into analysis...

As always, great groove playing and a very clear analysis. Even if the song's basic changes are very simple, like this one, your concepts and approach make them sound good.

Guy

**Vladan** · 03-07-2013, 07:05 PM

Here it is.
I had more interesting takes. I had one with 4 differnt approaches, each chorus it's own, melody, improv on melody, following chords and free ear thing, but I've erased it due some mistakes and glitches, hoping I'd nail it better, but eventually I got fed up with it all as all the attempts were just getting from bad to worse, so in the end opted for this one, easy one, because it's the least mistakes.

It's just muscle memory/ear thing. Under a microscope, I think I can find there e dorian, C mixolydian, b dorian, A major, ..., all sorts of a scale snippets, but honestly, as I see it, I just play combination of ordinary Gmajor/ e minor, G penta/ em penta, with some chromatisms, or chromatics, whatever the word is.

Oh yes, the recording. Unlike my previus posts here and in Showcase, this was "straight to tape", no additionl mixing, processing, nothing. Squier into Boss SE70 into mixer. Wiz's mp3 from PC into mixer, and all that back to Web Chat application that records both the sound and the wvideo.
If you're familiar with BossSE70, ther's a preset called Jazz Tone. I've edited that one by adding lowest possible distortion and some delay, while reducing ammount of reverb.
That's it.

**pkirk** · 03-07-2013, 08:06 PM

Hey Vladan

I know what you mean about takes that have mistakes, etc. Its typically best to just ignore it: you play like you play.

I have one comment on your version: To the extent that you are more in a jazz mode on this than your CROCS offering, at the very least, try to hit the Cmin change strongly when improvising. It's the most obvious place to let the listener know you are in control of the harmony.

**Vladan** · 03-07-2013, 08:25 PM

PKIRK, hank's for the advice.

I have to comment on a mindset difference. For example, to me, jazyy part of CROCS (nice acronym there, I did not spot it) was much more jazz than this. This is much more alike to what I usually play, mindless wading over strings, that is.

**pkirk** · 03-08-2013, 12:00 AM

Originally Posted by GuyBoden

Good playing and a nice tone, interesting lines. Do I hear some legato lines.

If I could make one suggestion, why don't you record a shorter track, analyzing this track for your best ideas.

Enjoyed.
Guy

Hey Guy, assuming you are asking me, here's what I was thinking/doing on the first chorus.

I started with the old min7 pentatonic off the 7th of a major chord, i.e. F#- over Gmaj, for that lydian sound (:05-:09)

Then some Ami noodling, into the generic Pat Martino lick over the Cmi (:16-:20)

A tritone sub melodic minor (F7 or Cmi) leading into the Emi (:24-27)

Then a "harmony be dammed" chromatic figure (:28-:35) which I somehow managed to resolve
into a II-V-I back to Gmaj.

I start the B section with some swinging 8th note thing, (:36-:44) but flubbed them a bit so that phrase sounds weak.

Then a diorio-style 4rth thing, (:45-:51) stacks of three 4rths moving in minor 3rds, which I managed to resolve correctly.

(:52-:59) is wanking, while I figure out what to do next, some flubbed notes again make this a bit weak.

I decided on swinging 8th notes to end the chorus (1:00-1:14) and since the tempo is moderate, I added a little slow vibrato and played with the time a little, ended the run with a blues lick and then a chromatic decending dominant chord to finish the chorus.

**wizard3739** · 03-08-2013, 03:33 AM

Originally Posted by Vladan

Here it is.
I had more interesting takes. I had one with 4 differnt approaches, each chorus it's own, melody, improv on melody, following chords and free ear thing, but I've erased it due some mistakes and glitches, hoping I'd nail it better, but eventually I got fed up with it all as all the attempts were just getting from bad to worse, so in the end opted for this one, easy one, because it's the least mistakes.

It's just muscle memory/ear thing. Under a microscope, I think I can find there e dorian, C mixolydian, b dorian, A major, ..., all sorts of a scale snippets, but honestly, as I see it, I just play combination of ordinary Gmajor/ e minor, G penta/ em penta, with some chromatisms, or chromatics, whatever the word is.

Oh yes, the recording. Unlike my previus posts here and in Showcase, this was "straight to tape", no additionl mixing, processing, nothing. Squier into Boss SE70 into mixer. Wiz's mp3 from PC into mixer, and all that back to Web Chat application that records both the sound and the video.
If you're familiar with BossSE70, ther's a preset called Jazz Tone. I've edited that one by adding lowest possible distortion and some delay, while reducing ammount of reverb.
That's it.

I like this one much more than your version of "Come rain Or come Shine. I hear more melody reference and some nice jazz phrasing. I would like to here just a bit more minor reference for this song. Nice tele!!

wiz

**Vladan** · 03-08-2013, 03:42 AM

@ Kris, you're in total control. I like how guitar sits in the mix.

@ pkirk, you're ltake reminded me of my own, it's feel, but with much more vocabulary

@Reg Man, you could turn anything into jazz blues that do not suck, and on the spot. One day I'll hopefully manage to develop that skill. I think that's really what the Jazz is all about.

@ Guy, artfull as always. I think the full effect listener gets If one can "play" original melody in the head while listening to your piece.

**GuyBoden** · 03-08-2013, 04:55 AM

Originally Posted by Vladan

Vladan, nice melody playing and a good Tele sound, but I can't hear the changes in your solo.

Enjoyed
Guy

**Vladan** · 03-08-2013, 05:16 AM

Guy, guess that's about the same remark as pkirk's. Now I know what to take care about the next time. Emphasize changes.

**Vladan** · 03-08-2013, 07:30 AM

Originally Posted by wizard3739

I like this one much more than your version of "Come rain Or come Shine. I hear more melody reference and some nice jazz phrasing. I would like to here just a bit more minor reference for this song. Nice tele!!

wiz

Thank's wiz, even when I just noodle arround, I keep "singing" original melody in my head. Tele is just an old Squier. Not the easiest on tuning ...,
... low E is absolutely impossible to match 12 fretted and harmonic, notes are allover the place from fret to fret, so I tune it to electronic tuner fretted at about 7th fret, which I found to be the best compromise ...
,.... so, although it's kind of love/hate relationship, I would not change it, because I find it goes fine with my personality.
I've got other Squier X155 Jazzbox, but I don't use it that much (mostly because it's too loud for late night recordings with kid sleeping in the next room).

**Vladan** · 03-09-2013, 06:24 AM

Thank you Kris, unfortunatelly, that means you'll have to wait for years to hear my first jazz performance, in the meantime, you'll all have to suffer my usual thing, you diehard jazzers.
(This was just a joke. I understood you in an absolutelly bona fide way.)

**kris** · 03-09-2013, 06:43 AM

Originally Posted by Vladan

Thank you Kris, unfortunatelly, that means you'll have to wait for years to hear my first jazz performance, in the meantime, you'll all have to suffer my usual thing, you diehard jazzers.
(This was just a joke. I understood you in an absolutelly bona fide way.)

Vladan,
Good joke,,,:-)
... "playing jazz" is not only practising on the instrument.
I recomend to you nice book by David N. Baker:
"A Creative Approach to Practising Jazz" New and Exciting Strategies For Unlocking Your Creative Potential.
Best
kris

**Vladan** · 03-09-2013, 07:15 AM

Thanks, I'll try to find it.

**GuyBoden** · 03-09-2013, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by wizard3739

well done octaves, Good tone and a very nice groove. good performance, Guy!

wiz

Wiz, thanks for listening and doing the work for the "Practical Standards Group", poll/backing tracks etc.

Originally Posted by kris

Good drive and feel/similar to 70's/.
It is also good exercise to play these octaves by thumb only al'a Wes.You will get different sound.
Best
Kris

Kris, also, thanks for listening, I've used the thumb in the past, if only I could play octaves like Wes' thumb, but my thumb is so slow and inarticulate.

**sunnysideup** · 03-11-2013, 03:42 AM

Nice Vladan, are you sure you're not a post-modernist performance artist have a laugh at the expense of us diehard jazzers. Your playing has a nice sense of fun about it, and you did some really nice things with rhythm too.

**Vladan** · 03-11-2013, 04:28 AM

Hey Sunny, thank you. While, in a sense, I may consider myself an postmodernist artist, I'm surelly not making funn of Jazz and Jazzers. I really think there should not be fun made of something one does not know really well, and believe me, I do not fake not knowing Jazz Standards, Jazz and Jazzers. However, as an artist, I think I'm obliged to try to use my deficiencies as vehicle, and to my advantage. Also, I think humour is one of essential parts of good music and good performance.

**sunnysideup** · 03-11-2013, 05:55 AM

I read an interview with Frank Zappa who said one of the things that he really liked about Wes Montgomery was the fun lines that Wes throws in from time to time; I also hear that in Howard Roberts and Frank too of course. But sorry I digress. This is a great corner of the forum and thanks to Wiz for organising it. If I ever get myself properly organised I'll put some stuff up too.