Part 3 - Playing over Dm7b5 G7 Cm7 using Ebmin-Ab7 and Abm7-Db7

[Mick-7]

The others most likely an offshoot of the biiio7 chord.

And it looks like you referenced the tunes, and thereby got the point.

If the subject is chord substitution (?), Like Someone in Love is the only tune you mentioned where I've seen that happening: F#m7/B7 for G7 (the vanilla chord change).

The others are the fairly common V7 of IIIm, or some sort of chromatic harmonic movement that serves the melody.

I don't think of IIIm as a sub for IM7 though since it's the upper structure of the chord.

Then again, looking around the forum, I see that there are multiple threads on this topic (and undoubtedly on most other topics), so everything here has probably been said before. I imagine there are threads here on slash chord theory too, but I don't know what search term would work for that.

[pamosmusic]

If the subject is chord substitution (?), Like Someone in Love is the only tune you mentioned where I've seen that happening: F#m7/B7 for G7 (the vanilla chord change).

The others are the fairly common V7 of IIIm, or some sort of chromatic harmonic movement that serves the melody.

I don't think of IIIm as a sub for IM7 though since it's the upper structure of the chord.

Then again, looking around the forum, I see that there are multiple threads on this topic (and undoubtedly on most other topics), so everything here has probably been said before. I imagine there are threads here on slash chord theory too, but I don't know what search term would work for that.

So this would be a place where I'd maybe point back to Christian's little remark:

Thinking only in vertical terms can really be a problem

Meaning that the purpose of a ii-V isn't really to be a ii-V, but to get you to your tonic. So if the biii diminished is a suitable way to move off of and/or back to the tonic, then it'll work in place of those ii-Vs. The end goal being the motion, the destination, and a strong melody. So that's a whole new universe of diminished-related dominants that will work over a ii-V.

But I think the "substitution" versus "motion" distinction is important. Substitution being a thing because it outlines some extended relationship to the underlying chord, movement being a thing because it serves the same purpose, regardless of its relationship to the underlying chord.

[Christian Miller]

Sometimes jazz soloists use a different means of getting to the destination than the rhythm section.

An absolutely classic example is the use of the #IVo7 to get back to I. If you employ this over a II V I for instance, you’ll get all kinds of difficult to explain notes like major sevenths on V and so on.

(Actually this move is closely related to the Gmaj7#5 thing Mick mentioned earlier, which can also be written B/G Cmaj7. A B triad moving to a C chord is surely the most obvious resolution imaginable to a guitarist haha.)

So vertical thinking will not help here, but in terms of how it sounds in context it’s extremely effective and much more widely used than the jazz manuals might lead one to think. The dissonance is powerful but resolved. (See also false relations in trad music theory and, errr the blues!)

That’s why it’s crucial to ground everything with respect to the music itself. Jazz is well explained by chord scale theory except in the many many cases where it isn’t.

This is what I mean by ‘layered tonality’ or what Steve Coleman calls ‘invisible pathways’ - not chord subs but routes into chords. This comes naturally for improvisation in groups and leads to a different style of harmonic organisation than composition.


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