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Perhaps I am overlearning from the particularly rough recording session last night, but I feel that I need a different approach to playing these tunes. I keep thinking about the chords, the right notes, the shapes that will get me in the least amount of trouble... It's hard to be free from the constant deliberation, which I feel hurts the musical experience as well as the outcome.
Is this something that you have experienced? How do you internalize a tune?
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03-22-2024 09:33 PM
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There's tremendous variation in how people do it. Here are a few...
- the tune form; the melody and chords' names/types, as notes, and named relationships (scales degrees, intervals)
- the schema of the tune and construction of things to apply (note phrases, chords)
- the harmonic rhythm of the tune and selection/modification from vocabulary to play (note phrases, chord patterns of harmony)
- abstraction of "how it goes" - internal representation of how it sounds, expressed played by ear, unnamed (pitches, phrases, patterns)
I can't speak for the theory perspectives, but some here that have that background and experience mention simplifying strategies (chunking, reference, targets) which I also use, although maybe not quite in the same way. I play by ear and never think about the names of things nor the names of their relationships. I recognize these things in discussion, but my playing/performing mind is clear of any self verbalization; only hearing in my mind's ear how the tune goes.
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Thank you very much for sharing your playing with us, and raising an interesting question. There's bound to be all manner of advice, but let me offer my two cents on a couple points.
When I play solo guitar, which I only do once or twice a year for a one-off show, I often play out of tempo and deviate from the form in places. It's not deliberate, in many cases, it can be the result of not being a very measured player. But I realized when we're on our own we can do things that may not work in another context. What keeps it together, in my very limited experience, is focusing on the melody, which to me is what keeps it together as a tune. I can't improvise a chord solo on the fly, unlike some of the very adept players you'll find in here, nor can I play very fast, but I see my limitations as an opening to creativity so I try to enjoy playing around with the melody, not only in the sense of playing what's written, but playing around, as in messing around with it. In that same dual vein of play, I also find it interesting to take apart a tune and see what might re-emerge from recombining all the different pieces. This is all highly personal, but I think playing solo guitar can be like that.
Softly gets called often at jam sessions where I live, near a small city in Japan, and it's what I would call a "staple tune," or even an "ice-breaker tune," since everyone seems to know it. Your version is very nice, though I've never experienced it here as a solo guitar tune. So, my next comment is on playing that with others. When everyone knows a tune and it gets called all the time, it can sometimes become staid. But at jam sessions the focus is having fun playing jazz with others, in the midst of unexpected twists and turns. So while the tune may not be any more interesting, the people who you play with bring something to it. I had a sax player friend, who actually introduced me to jam sessions, and he referred to this as "blending our colors." Being in that spontaneous situation often can shape your approach to a tune, and you can bring some of that back into the solo version. It's just a small thought.
The sax player I mentioned left Japan for a year to study and play in New Orleans; when he came back he joined some of the usual jam sessions. When someone called Softly, he made a suggestion that I suppose he picked up on his travels, I don't know. But it was to play the last A section a half step down. So, if you're doing it in Cm, the last 8 bars are in Bm, and when you come back to the top in Cm it really pops. Not earth shattering, but it's a simple twist to bring some adventure back into playing a very familiar, even over-played, standard. To me, that's the joy of jazz, it's all the same in many ways, and yet it's all different, too.
Thank you again for posting, and I wish you all the best on your musical adventures!
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I really liked that version! Thanks for sharing your playing. I think that Softly is a difficult song to play as a chord melody which is a difficult skill
Your playing reminds me of how the Martin Taylor would play from the chord shapes visualising the root and 10th of each chord freeing his fingers up to embellish melodies and improvise. Think he has books, online school and videos on his method. Think I’d stick with developing the style you have.
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I'm amazed you have to ask that. Obviously by playing it again and again till you know it inside out. Haven't you done that?
Originally Posted by MadeulPlaysGuitar
It's not the same as 'thinking about the chords, the right notes, the shapes', that's merely cerebral. It's knowing the tune as a unified whole, a complete entity, so it becomes part of you. It means not being frightened of it.
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Not sure “playing it again and again” is sufficient for this though. Originally Posted by ragman1
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Emily Remler's version is still my fav, the intro is superb, She opens with a low Em11 (open E) walks up to FM#11 to F#m11 etc, very nice, so it's in a different key than usual, but absolutely superb.
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No mystical insight here. For me, it's repetition. Over time, I can start to feel (instead of analyze) the harmony and then, when this approach is working, my fingers find the right notes, without any interference from me. For unfamiliar harmony I'll probably have to think about chord tones or scales at first and I might still have to after a lot of work, depending on how odd the harmony sounds to me. Originally Posted by MadeulPlaysGuitar
When I was learning my first tune in 7/4, I had to listen to it for many hours.
One suggestion to get out of the chord/scale/math mindset is strum the chords and scat sing a solo. If you like it, put it on the guitar. No Thinking!
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So I might not be a normal player... and many of these concepts will be beyond your skill level... but that being said.... at some point you need to develop the skills needed to play jazz in a jazz style...
Which is simply... being able to play in jazz styles.... not just playing tunes.
It takes a lifetime... maybe even a few to develop these skill by trial and error, or memorizing tunes and playing the shit out of them etc. And most never get there.
It's part of the process obviously, but you also need to put the time into memorizing the Forms, the styles, the chord patterns, the licks etc... and how to use them in different contexts.
How many ways can you play any tune? Like now, without rehearsing.
Most seem to be able to memorize a melody and maybe even play it in a few ways... Rhythm, Harmony and harmonic Rhythm are also just like the melody...
Eventually when you look or play a tune... you should see and hear targets... the most important points of a tune that help define the tune and style the tune is being played in... within a Form, that repeats.
You can still have intros, outros, interludes etc... but that Form is the foundation that holds the tune together.
Sorry way to much BS.... Here's one of a few vids I posted of playing Softly... There is a shit load of information in this video. It needs to be understood and expanded.
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Thank you for the thoughtful response! I think I pull from a mixture of the list there, with a heavy emphasis on the melody and the abstracted out version of the chords (e.g., I IV instead of C F). For songs that I'm very well familiar with, perhaps I approach the last item -- "how it goes." I think my overall approach is similar to the one you cite here, albeit imperfectly, but that requires great familiarity with not only the tune but with the language of the genre. From my pop-punk days, I know I can do this, but jazz simply uses more words and complex grammar. So when my vocabulary fails me, I start reminding myself what will follow in the next bar -- at which point the music stalls. Originally Posted by pauln
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I relate to what you write here-- I think that, given where I am and how long I have been playing, I would be wasting time if I focus on harmonic innovation, etc. Not to say that I would not like to break new ground or that it is not important to do so, but that is simply never going to be my comparative advantage. What I do think I have, however, is a voice, and if I can reliably play a few tunes without messing things up or being absolutely inane with the solo, and if that brings some listeners a bit of joy, then I have served my mission. So I want to focus on that. Originally Posted by JazzPadd
Now, if there was a button in front of me that I could press to start playing like Pasquale Grasso, I would press that button instantly, but I don't see it in front of me...
In-person community is something I miss. Maybe I should look for some jam sessions around me, which would be a first... What a terrifying thought!Softly gets called often at jam sessions where I live, near a small city in Japan, and it's what I would call a "staple tune," or even an "ice-breaker tune," since everyone seems to know it. Your version is very nice, though I've never experienced it here as a solo guitar tune. So, my next comment is on playing that with others. When everyone knows a tune and it gets called all the time, it can sometimes become staid. But at jam sessions the focus is having fun playing jazz with others, in the midst of unexpected twists and turns. So while the tune may not be any more interesting, the people who you play with bring something to it. I had a sax player friend, who actually introduced me to jam sessions, and he referred to this as "blending our colors." Being in that spontaneous situation often can shape your approach to a tune, and you can bring some of that back into the solo version. It's just a small thought.
The sax player I mentioned left Japan for a year to study and play in New Orleans; when he came back he joined some of the usual jam sessions. When someone called Softly, he made a suggestion that I suppose he picked up on his travels, I don't know. But it was to play the last A section a half step down. So, if you're doing it in Cm, the last 8 bars are in Bm, and when you come back to the top in Cm it really pops. Not earth shattering, but it's a simple twist to bring some adventure back into playing a very familiar, even over-played, standard. To me, that's the joy of jazz, it's all the same in many ways, and yet it's all different, too.
Thank you again for posting, and I wish you all the best on your musical adventures!
Thank you for sharing your thoughts, which are so eloquently expressed.
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I appreciate your encouragement. Embarrassing to admit, but the only tune that I've heard Martin Taylor play is "True," which is perhaps not very representative of his musicianship. I will check him out, thanks! Originally Posted by jazzdod
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Yes, this is my favorite as well! Especially love the intro. It's truly tragic that we will never get to hear more from her. Originally Posted by GuyBoden
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I am actually starting to do this! I think there's a Joe Pass clip where he demonstrates to his audience -- I think a masterclass -- as he hums and plays. If I could play the guitar as well as I can scat, I would be a much better player! Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
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Someone posted a video of her playing it on her Borys B120. She was getting this beautiful, dark, hypnotic sound out of it, probably because she put it in Em which is a better guitar key for it than Cm. Great idea. Originally Posted by GuyBoden
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If you can scat a solo you like, all you need to do is develop the facility to think a line and play it immediately. You can practice this by thinking of any melody you know and playing it starting on a random finger/fret/string. Or copying something you hear if you noodle while watching TV. Play the melody in the commercial or background music. Originally Posted by MadeulPlaysGuitar
When you can't scat something new that you like, it's time to transcribe and/or think about theory - to build a bigger vocabulary of sounds.
Being able to play what you're thinking is, IMO, a fundamental skill for a jazz musician.
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You know what this is a very similar idea to Kurt's intro/interlude to his tune Zhivago or should I say, the other way around. Originally Posted by sgcim
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Very god advice IMHO. When I started playing I tried to play the melody of any song that came in my mind just like this. Children's songs, classical music, chart music, just play the melody WITHOUT checking for key or scale, just with your ears. Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
Also Jeff Schneiders "I Love You" method could be of help for you... really funny idea he had:
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I listened to that album. It didn't speak to me in a special way. Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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Oh yeah, of course, that's all priced in. What I meant was scatting and playing the melody while also playing the chords underneath. Having a bit of fun the past week working on this-- it will help with my next tune! Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
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Thanks for sharing! I did run across that thumbnail a few times, and I have to admit, the sheer YouTube-ness of it had prevented me from clicking on it (not to sound too much like I'm yelling at clouds...). I did watch it per your recommendation, and once you get past the whole personality thing (which, more power to him!), I think it's a very sound advice. I think I end up phrasing in that way despite not using actual words, but perhaps I could try it at some point. Sorry if I sound overly grumpy about people hustling for more watch hours, which a lot of us do anyway, myself included Originally Posted by DonEsteban
Thanks again!
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