Improvising over 4+ bars of static chords

[CaptainLemming]

With a song like I'll Remember April, how do people improvise over so many bars of a GMaj7 and then the GMin7 and make it sound interesting? I at one time learned the first chorus of Grant Green's solo over this song, and absolutely love it, but I could not tell someone why its so interesting to listen to despite the static chords. I mean, despite the static chords it seems to move. I sound like I've one foot on the gas pedal and the other on the brake... or worse. Modal tunes are easier, I guess, but there again how to provide the movement while improvising?

[Tal_175]

Everything you can use to you create movement over static chords when comping is also available when soloing.

[ragman1]

Look up various transcriptions on You Tube. I'll Remember April is quite a fast tune so the four + four bars pass pretty quickly. Most of the players use short phrases... you can see how they do it. I'm sure you'll manage.

[rpjazzguitar]

The first 4 bars are Gmaj, give or take an extension.

So, the first thing I did was look at the melody and play some chord melody.

I didn't come up with anything dramatic. First melody note is B, so I played a Gmaj7 with a B on top.

Next melody note is a C. C isn't in Gmaj7. You could play it against Gmaj7, and you might like that sound, but I went to an Am7 with a C on top.

Thereafter, I was going back and forth between Gmaj7 and Am7 (give or take an extension).

Then for comping I played a bar each of Gmaj7, Am7, Bm7 (most of a Gmaj9 if you check the notes0 and C6 (same as Am7, but I had a C in the bass). That led well enough to the Gm chord in bar 5. From that point the chords were less static and needed less fiddling.

Pretty vanilla, but not as vanilla as 4 bars of Gmaj7.

Then, to fancy it up, I put a D7b9 right before the Gm.

Then a countermelody on the D and G strings occurred to me. Mostly double stops. Seemed like a motif I could use to start a solo. Then, I try to let the solo tell me where it wants to go. That's a little too vague to be an instruction, but that's how I think about it.

Anyway, that's what it took to get started.

A more advanced player harmonically would reharm those bars really well and play on all of the reharm.

[alltunes]

With a song like I'll Remember April, how do people improvise over so many bars of a GMaj7 and then the GMin7 and make it sound interesting? I at one time learned the first chorus of Grant Green's solo over this song, and absolutely love it, but I could not tell someone why its so interesting to listen to despite the static chords. I mean, despite the static chords it seems to move. I sound like I've one foot on the gas pedal and the other on the brake... or worse. Modal tunes are easier, I guess, but there again how to provide the movement while improvising?

Ideas I might try….

Learn the melody and how to “manipulate” it. Play it with different rhythmic inflections, octave displacement etc. As stated above use the whole key of Gmaj. Am, Bm etc. Also think dominant approach….you could start a lines with D7 and resolve into Gmaj.

Can’t vouch for how accurate this but seems like a nice clear video to pick up some lines.

[Mick-7]

Joe Pass covers this subject in some depth in his book, Joe Pass Guitar Style (not Guitar Method), which you can find for free online.

[Jimmy Smith]

You don't need changes to make a melody seem like it's developing. Some easy devices to do this are sequence and call and response. You can sequence patterns or you can develop the progressive phrases more naturally. Super easy. You'll wonder why you ever thought static chords were hard.

[sgcim]

Look up various transcriptions on You Tube. I'll Remember April is quite a fast tune so the four + four bars pass pretty quickly. Most of the players use short phrases... you can see how they do it. I'm sure you'll manage.

Yeah, I can't stand when people like Jim Hall in his duo w/ Ron Carter played it like like it was a lullaby.
On Ralph Patt's Backing Tracks, I play it at 320bpm a manly man's tempo. Tal played it at least as fast.

[grahambop]

Yeah, I can't stand when people like Jim Hall in his duo w/ Ron Carter played it like it was a lullaby.

well it almost was…

[sgcim]

well it almost was…

God help us.

[ragman1]

CaptainLemming has thrown himself off the cliff :-)

[grahambop]

I hadn’t heard the Grant Green version before, it’s nice and clear (just guitar, bass and drums).

[grahambop]

I like Jim Hall’s version too (hadn’t heard that one either), makes a change to hear it done slowly.

[mr. beaumont]

I like Jim Hall’s version too (hadn’t heard that one either), makes a change to hear it done slowly.

I always liked the Bbm7 in bar 13 they do. Delays the ii V and resolution...makes things just a little unpredictable.

[Reg]

If you can't make 4 bars of single chord sound great.... it's not the chords fault.

You need to start practicing over vamps.

1) Go through the standard learning process of soloing on each chord of each scale. Start with Maj scale
2) Then do the same with 2 chord patterns, then 3, 4 etc.

Eventually your going to learn how to connect chords, expand chords with chord patterns and more ways to imply different harmonic movement beside basic melodic resolutions.

This is just standard technical jazz studies.... you want to play like a sax.... do what a sax does.

[CaptainLemming]

If you can't make 4 bars of single chord sound great.... it's not the chords fault.

You need to start practicing over vamps.

1) Go through the standard learning process of soloing on each chord of each scale. Start with Maj scale
2) Then do the same with 2 chord patterns, then 3, 4 etc.

Eventually your going to learn how to connect chords, expand chords with chord patterns and more ways to imply different harmonic movement beside basic melodic resolutions.

This is just standard technical jazz studies.... you want to play like a sax.... do what a sax does.

Reminds me of the joke about the octopus whose claim to fame was he could play any instrument but was flummoxed by the bagpipes. Apparently he couldn't figure out how to have "sax" with it. Sorry :sadtrombone. But yeah, a vamp is key here. I loop those bars using IRealPlayer. My family goes for a long walk. I need a strategy, maybe an outline or idea, to make what I'm doing more interesting. One foot on the gas pedal the other on the brake is how it currently sounds to me.

Thank you!

[pamosmusic]

If you can't make 4 bars of single chord sound great.... it's not the chords fault.

Brutal.

Yeah it’s a super interesting problem though. I remember really struggling over vamp tunes when I was younger. There are changes to ride. You sort of take for granted that playing changes is harder, but when the changes are pretty simpler it can actually be a lot easier because you can have a handful of ideas that can’t transposed and moved around. Then you suddenly have to play over a tune with a vamp and you’re exposed because you only have a handful of ideas and there’s no obvious way to stretch them out. So that took some work.

You need to start practicing over vamps.

1) Go through the standard learning process of soloing on each chord of each scale. Start with Maj scale
2) Then do the same with 2 chord patterns, then 3, 4 etc.

Eventually your going to learn how to connect chords, expand chords with chord patterns and more ways to imply different harmonic movement beside basic melodic resolutions.

This is just standard technical jazz studies.... you want to play like a sax.... do what a sax does.

And yeah this is all good advice. It makes sense even if you hate I’ll remember April and never want to play it. If all you want to play is swing changes, then you’ll still sound better if you’ve spent time just living on a major chord and developing ideas and doing the same over minor etc etc.

[ragman1]

CaptainLemming -

I'm not altogether sure we have enough information to properly answer your question. Are you playing single notes against a backing track or doing it chord melody fingerstyle?

If it's with a backing track how fast is it going? Because it certainly doesn't need to be done at a hell-for-leather pace.

[Reg]

Strategy...
The best way to start... is to organize the space.

Tune is A B A last A with a turnaround.

So you have 16 bar phrases.... subdivided into two 8 bars sections etc.... understand the Form and the relationships.

So 8 bars, 2 x 4 bars ... 1st Gmaj ...2nd Gmin.

So subdivide again
.... option 1

3 bars of 1 harmonic area with 4th bar becoming the setup of next 4 bars... 5-8

same with bars 5-8, you've set up a harmonic rhythm.... pattern bars 5-7 new Tonic and bar 8 becoming setup of the 2nd part or last 8 bars or "A" section.

There is already a chord pattern implied Gmaj7 to Gmaj6.... pretty standard to use G6 as access to blues notes and then... on bar 4...use D7#9 licks to imply new Target of G-7 which becomes Chord pattern of G-7 to C7

I usually make 1st 8 bars...

/ Gmaj7 G6 / Gma7 D7#9 / Gma7 G6 / Gma7 D7#9 /

/ G-7 G-6 / G-7 D7#9 / G-7 G-6 / G-7 E7#9 / (E7#9 to get to A-7b5 of bar 9)

Typically Gmin7 to G-6 implies standard G-7 to C7 or II-7 V7's which has lots of possibilities of expanding Harmonically.... which will open doors for melodic development.

So generally your seeing and hearing the whole tune... Form or organization of Space with harmony, melody and rhythm etc...

And you try to have each Section, ("A") become like a subdivision of the whole Form. At least some connections. The more you organize.... the better it will feel.

The chords I suggested are all from and implied from the whole tune.

Remember... fake books are like simple outlines to help us remember or understand what the Tune implies.

They don't notate everything or complete harmonic implications with organization.

[mr. beaumont]

The life of a jazz player...we get 8 bars with 2 chords per bar, and our first instinct is "how can I make this simpler?"

Then we get 8 bars of only two chords and we say "How can I make this more interesting?"

[ragman1]

This is ridiculous.

4 bars of G at a medium pace? Just run a line or two, go up the scale, cover the chord, whatever. For god's sake, it's not a problem at all. Unless you want to make it one. The Gm6 is more tricky in any case.

The rest of the tune's far more complicated, it modulates into Am, Bb and E. And you need a PhD to negotiate a few bars of GM7 and Gm6?

Someone's pulling someone's chain, n'est-ce pas.

[CaptainLemming]

CaptainLemming -

I'm not altogether sure we have enough information to properly answer your question. Are you playing single notes against a backing track or doing it chord melody fingerstyle?

If it's with a backing track how fast is it going? Because it certainly doesn't need to be done at a hell-for-leather pace.

Thank you ragman1. I'm trying to wrap my head around single note playing over these chords over the first 8 bars, no chord melody yet. IRealPlayer currently set at 160bpm.

[ragman1]

Just cover the chords. Don't mess up your head, it's the simplest thing in the whole tune. Slow it down, too. Then speed it up.

[CaptainLemming]

And you need a PhD to negotiate a few bars of GM7 and Gm6?

No, I don't. Just advice.

[ragman1]

No, I don't. Just advice.

Rhetorical question, not aimed at you at all. Sorry, should have made that clear. Response to another post, not yours. I'm trying to help you!