When you solo over a song, are you playing a chord progression or the song?

[mr. beaumont]

Yeah, when I read the first part of his post I was definitely agreeing with Lawson, until I saw what he DID want to do...

Jazz is one of those things...to know what's going on later, it helps to know what was going on earlier.

[Christian Miller]

I'd say there are a couple of possible reasons, but you won't ever be able to play it as well as the folks who do love it.

One reason: gigs. I've played a few where I wasn't wild about what we were doing.

Also: Jazz is a big world. I try to work on some tunes that I don't exactly love because if I don't learn them I won't be able to find people to play with in my little town. I'm kinda ambivalent about pretty much the whole GASB. It's good music and all, but it's not what I really want to do. I would like to be better at it though.

I did an audition a couple of years back where they called Autumn Leaves. I said I've never played it. They looked at me like I was totally nuts, like 'why are you here?!'. But it's true. I spent years playing late and early Miles, hard bop, mid-sixties stuff and into 70's fusion. We did play Naima, but they weren't into A.L.

In the view of the guys I was auditioning for, if you don't know Leaves, Days of Wine, etc backwards and forwards, then you can't call yourself a jazz player. So I've been getting those together for when I retire and have the time to go to jams.

I can almost say the same about bop. So I work Donna, Joy Spring, etc. I do love Joy Spring! Who doesn't?

Oh man. Tell me about it.

The whole complicated relationship I have with Manouche jazz haha. Bored a lot of people with that…. I would still say about half of my calls such as they are, are to play that music. For a while it was almost all my gigs!

I always think - why? There are people who live and breathe this music and for whom going to Samois and spending days on an island surrounded by gypsy jazz guitarists shredding 24/7 does not sound like cruel and unusual punishment. But there you are. I know the tunes and people seem to think I sound good playing it.

It is pretty fun to play! It doesn’t feel like me tho. But maybe I’m looking for too much from a job.

It seems likely I am an entitled idiot. I’m certainly incredibly bad at shutting up for the sake of a gig. (And now I have no gigs lol, and I can scarcely blame anyone but myself.)

Let that be a lesson to ye!

[ccroft]

don't be surprised if my avatar changes to a grande bouche and a snap brim cap in a couple of years

it could come to it. i wouldn't mind being better at that as well.

[RLetson]

In some ways, "gypsy jazz" is like bluegrass--there are narrow and broad takes on what's authentic, with the narrow-take players often holding very strict notions and correspondingly narrow aesthetics, often reinforced by niche-cultural attitudes. And the urge to shred seems as strong among GJ guys as it does among various flavors of metal. At least in the GJ world there's a historical connection to musette waltz that tempers some of this. (Though I hear a lot of accordion shredding among the musette guys. I suspect the firehose-of-notes approach is a universal temptation.)

[drbhrb]

Oh man. Tell me about it.

The whole complicated relationship I have with Manouche jazz haha. Bored a lot of people with that…. I would still say about half of my calls such as they are, are to play that music. For a while it was almost all my gigs!

I always think - why? There are people who live and breathe this music and for whom going to Samois and spending days on an island surrounded by gypsy jazz guitarists shredding 24/7 does not sound like cruel and unusual punishment. But there you are. I know the tunes and people seem to think I sound good playing it.

It is pretty fun to play! It doesn’t feel like me tho. But maybe I’m looking for too much from a job.

It seems likely I am an entitled idiot. I’m certainly incredibly bad at shutting up for the sake of a gig. (And now I have no gigs lol, and I can scarcely blame anyone but myself.)

Let that be a lesson to ye!

I went through a similar phase of winding up with a lot of GJ gigs despite the fact that I was somewhat ambivalent to it. I mean it's great music and all but I just never wanted to live it like people do. In particular I hated whenever someone would book a gig and then want to play costume dress up. That whole vibe from GJ and trad players makes it feel like they are more interested in cosplaying a fantasy than the music itself

[mr. beaumont]

Oh yes, indeed a complicated relationship I have as well with "gypsy" jazz...I even hate using that word.

It turns out I love Django, Boulou Ferre, and the guitars...and that's about it.

The people (not all!) can be excruciating...the dichotomy of the "there's only one authentic way to do it" and the fact that Django was literally an innovator at every stage of his career was exhausting after a while.

But it did get me interested in the art of rhythm guitar, so that was cool. And I met one cool friend who I don't see nearly often enough these days. Glad the thread digressed to this, I think I'll give him a call.

[rpjazzguitar]

A few months ago I went to the 222 Club in Healdsburg CA to hear an award winning GJ group from Europe. Sorry, can't recall the name.

They were completely incredible. Had the audience on their feet and screaming -- which is not something I expect from instrumental jazz.

At this point, I'm more likely to go to a GJ show than a straight American jazz show, although I've been going to hear some big bands now and then (a style which grew on me long after I started playing in big bands to work on my reading).

That said, the majority of shows I go to correspond with my favorite music to play, which is Brazilian jazz. I like GJ, but I can't play it properly.

Oh, one other point, I go to hear American jazz when I'm in NYC.

[Christian Miller]

Oh yes, indeed a complicated relationship I have as well with "gypsy" jazz...I even hate using that word.

It turns out I love Django, Boulou Ferre, and the guitars...and that's about it.

The people (not all!) can be excruciating...the dichotomy of the "there's only one authentic way to do it" and the fact that Django was literally an innovator at every stage of his career was exhausting after a while.

But it did get me interested in the art of rhythm guitar, so that was cool. And I met one cool friend who I don't see nearly often enough these days. Glad the thread digressed to this, I think I'll give him a call.

Of course, Django wasn’t a ‘gypsy jazz’ guitarist ;-) I’m serious, ask Denis Chang haha.


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[Spook410]

..Why in heaven's name would anyone want to learn to play music that they don't actually like?

To understand physics, you have to study calculus.

[Christian Miller]

I suppose most modern jazz courses see bop as a prerequisite for everything else and it’s easy to see why. It becomes a tool. This is how you build lines etc. So I can see the analogy.

It’s like counterpoint for composers.

Quite a few modern/contemporary jazz players I know are not that sold on bop. They learn it (a bit) and respect it but they don’t love it.

(Otoh if you spend all your time following the history back you’ll end up like me haha. How much time do you throw at this stuff?)

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[AllanAllen]

To understand physics, you have to study calculus.

Dude, it's just music. You can skip the stuff you don't like.