VOICE-MOTION: Melodic Movement within three-part Harmony

[Navdeep_Singh]

MAiL-looks like it’s worthy of George vEps-Ted Greene-Mick Goodrick types of works. Going to see what I can incorporate into my existing frameworks.


INTRODUCTION by Ben Monder:


“In the great tradition of Mick Goodrick and George Van Eps, this invaluable book is systematic in presentation and exhaustive in scope. It will lead the student towards the view of harmony that is based less on discrete vertical structure and more the result of independently moving lines. This approach opens vast new possibilities for the improvisor, and illuminates a path forward toward the goal of spontaneous composition. Jump almost anywhere in this book and one will be able to paly though examples that sound great, have instant practical applicability, and that most likely have not been heard before. Most importantly, they will inspire the student toe create his or her own interpretations of the concepts within, ad work towards the pursuit of a personal vocabulary. While these exercises are presented in terms of three-part chords, by “melting the verticalities there is huge potential for a linear application as well”

[nyc chaz]

I just looked at this book on the website and it's 300 pages of those Van Eps type exercises.For me the book would have to come with a 6 month supply of No Doz pills to get through it.That being said,i would be interested to see what you think of it after working through the book for awhile.

[pamosmusic]

dammit i want to buy this now.

[mr. beaumont]

This looks like the kind of thing I buy and then am not smart enough for.

[pamosmusic]

This looks like the kind of thing I buy and then am not smart enough for.

Oh that's most of the stuff I buy.

[bako]

Thanks for the heads up. Just purchased a digital copy. I like the simple voice movement graphic, makes it easy to visualize the various options of where (a) note(s) may go next.

[AllanAllen]

Oh that's most of the stuff I buy.

I have a shelf filling up with guitar books I don’t understand.

[Liarspoker]

That was quick Navdeep. Amazon Prime?

[Jimmy Smith]

Most people need to just gain fluency with basic chord melody of simple melody on top and the appropriate chord inversion below. Rather than all this advanced stuff like BH or this that won't be used.

[pamosmusic]

Most people need to just gain fluency with basic chord melody of simple melody on top and the appropriate chord inversion below. Rather than all this advanced stuff like BH or this that won't be used.

Okay but what is fluency?

What about notes that don’t harmonize in a straightforward ways?

This seems like it’s geared toward that kind of motion.

And the BH stuff, in its basic form, is mechanical voicing which is specifically designed for harmonizing melodies.

[Jimmy Smith]

Okay but what is fluency?

Being able to improvise with it in time. I don't think many players on this site can do that. Probably only a handful of players can. The advanced stuff is interesting but you gotta get the basics down first.

[pamosmusic]

Being able to improvise with it in time. I don't think many players on this site can do that. Probably only a handful of players can. The advanced stuff is interesting but you gotta get the basics down first.

The table of contents suggest this book would be helpful w that. The framing is systematic but that doesn’t have to be appealing to one person to be helpful to another.

Who knows though.

[Liarspoker]

Most people need to just gain fluency with basic chord melody of simple melody on top and the appropriate chord inversion below. Rather than all this advanced stuff like BH or this that won't be used.

This book is aimed at playing three different, movable lines instead of just harmonizing a melody note with a chord (more later).

[mr. beaumont]

If you're on Facebook, follow Haage...he has a bunch of little videos up that illustrate some of these sounds, and they are very beautiful.

[Jimmy Smith]

This book is aimed at playing three different, movable lines instead of just harmonizing a melody note with a chord (more later).

I can read sir. Again, if you can't play basic chord melody with simple melody on top and the appropriate chord inversion below you probably want to get that down before skipping ahead. I've heard nevershouldhavesoldit play improvised chord melody in time and probably that's it.

[pamosmusic]

I can read sir. Again, if you can't play basic chord melody with simple melody on top and the appropriate chord intersion below you probably want to get that down before skipping ahead. I've heard nevershouldhavesoldit play improvised chord melody in time and probably that's it.

I hope one day to earn your permission to think this is cool and useful, sir.

[Jimmy Smith]

[wolflen]

Consider..the intro by Ben Monder

This would be a good study aid for those with some classical study under their belt.

To me the term "moving voices" brings visions of Bach inventions and classical influenced jazz masters..Corea, Bill Evans, Keith Jarrett and more
and the many guitarist that incorporate classical flavors and technique in their style of playing.

As some point out this is in line with the Van Epps approach to guitar voice movement.

Ted Greene said his Chord Chemistry book as printed is not what he really wanted. The very unconventional chords were not
just to display extraordinary stretching ability but to demonstrate how to incorporate very wide voicings in melodic movement.

Ben Monder said in an interview that he used Greens book for that purpose.

[rpjazzguitar]

Amazon lets you read a substantial sample of the book.

Here's a quote:

"out of the 324 motions, 146 have the top note moving up/down a 3rd".

The table of contents suggests that there are three "guitar solos" written out, but none of them are in the Amazon sample read.

I tend to learn new ideas best when I hear them applied to a song. Pages of combinatorics usually don't work for me.

Reminded me a bit of the old yellow George Van Eps book. My impression is that few players could get much out of it.

[bako]

The book starts with scale derived 3 note structures in all inversions and looks at diatonic movements of chord tones in ascending and descending and combinations thereof.
Many, many combinations......

1 3 5 - Triads
1 4 5 - Suspended/Quartal
1 2 3 - Cluster
1 3 7 - 7th (no 5th)
1 5 7 - 7th (no 3rd)

It is a simple path that reveals some interesting chord voicing combinations.
Thankfully the parameters were limited to 3 note chords, had he ventured into 4 notes,
the book would likely be upwards of 1200 pages.

[Reg]

I think for many people this could help.... mechanical memorization with organization. But for some people... a another approach is to understand why the notes move etc... understanding what is the musical organization for the movement.

The same set of notes can have different musical organization and imply different melodic movement. Is the movement organized with melodic tendencies... or is the movement derived from harmonic implications.

I guess, again it depends on the user. And just for reference... I think this is example of where it leads. I'm not knocking.... But If your going to spend time working on something...check out where it's from and where it might lead.

[pamosmusic]

Sounds great.

I guess to be kind of blunt about this, I like books that aren’t “practical” in any meaningful sense.

If I can work through them, then I might one day be done with them, which seems like a waste of $30. I kind of prefer the stuff that just organizes the information and lets me make of it what I will. Stuff I can come back to over and over … the Goodrick stuff, The Serious Jazz Practice Book has been a perennial favorite … those types of things.

Anyway …

[Liarspoker]

Modern Guitar Harmony is conducting an interview with the author of Voice Motion, Johannes Haage, tomorrow (delayed from last Monday).

Post any questions that you may have below and they might be answered.

[Tal_175]

Modern Guitar Harmony is conducting an interview with the author of Voice Motion, Johannes Haage, tomorrow (delayed from last Monday).

Post any questions that you may have below and they might be answered.

I have a question about the book.

Suppose the harmonic rhythm of a song form is one chord per bar. Is this book about finding good voice leading while maintaining one chord per bar relationship (in the case of this song) or does it provide a more fluid view of harmony?

A rigid way of looking at harmony is where chord voicings correspond to the harmonic rhythm. You play a voicing and you're done with the bar, you worry about how to play the "next" chord following the form. Kind of like the campfire guitar style.

In jazz we tend to think of harmony in a bit more fluid way. Suppose you're playing the IImin chord, you play a voicing but inside the bar you can move the root to the 9th, 5th to the 4th (ie 11th) etc because you are still within the Dorian harmonic region. Moreover on weak beats you can completely go outside of the harmonic region and come back to it on the strong beat. These two types of motion (extensions within the harmony, and temporary tensions) are typically taught as using substitutions and passing chords (diminished, dominant, diatonic, parallel). In the Barry Harris world, they correspond the 6th diminished scales and borrowing. So does this book cover any of that?


Of course even a more fluid way to view the harmony is to abandon the vertical forms all together and think in terms of the bass voice, the melody voice and the inner voices. But I'm guessing that's definitely not how the book is organized (with respect to motion within the unit of harmonic rhythm)? Or can the concepts covered in the book be also applied this way?

[AllanAllen]

Did you watch the video? This guy isn't playing jazz standards with changes. It's more like jam band stuff than jazz to me.