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BEWARE OF SALE pitch at the end though
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01-23-2024 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by SOLR
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What’s the summary? Learn basic scales then copy licks?
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Originally Posted by AllanAllen
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.. and Lennie Tristano turns in his grave, again...
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Originally Posted by pauln
Do you mean transcribe with no instrument to check? Can you do a song you haven’t heard on an unknown key all by ear?
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I don't see why everything has to be click bait dogma. Yes, he gave some accurate advice. One of the main points in the middle was when you improvise you want to communicate using vocab your audience understands. At the end he summarized his premise throughout the video, you do want to learn your musical basics but he basically regurgitated that you want to build up knowledge and your own vocab through transcribing. Yes, that is important, but you also need to understand how to build material from scratch which he kind of downplayed and overlooked. Everything isn't a lick or was derived from an innate process of lick learning. I honestly think these educators plain old do not understand how to build melody. They also clearly can't hear well, because if they could, they would hear that great improvisors like the ones in the video use raw material to come up with inspiring music.
Last edited by Jimmy Smith; 01-24-2024 at 10:03 AM.
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Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
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I mean … I can’t really say I disagree with much here (aside from his assertion that his nonsense phrase “followed the rules of grammar”, but I digress). I just think the whole thing is one big strawman …
… People out there saying that improvisation is never playing the same thing twice?
Citation needed, my guy. I’ve literally never heard that before in my life.
So yeah … good information, I guess. Just not sure why everything needs to be put out there like it’s some kind of forbidden knowledge or something. Gets tired quick.
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Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
Grant Green plays triads but also dresses those triads up with cool bebop isms. Both are important and I’m all about practicing my interval stuff and a billion ways to play triads, but consider:
You get the triad by focusing on the Grant Green vocabulary.
You can’t get the Grant Green vocabulary by focusing on the triads.
So one is somewhat more important than the other. Even if it’s just matters of degree.
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^ Yes, you do learn more about the advanced, exact, real idea by focusing in. So that's not expendable. But you also learn how to do it independently with the raw theory, so that's not expendable. They're both essential. They don't need to click bait against half the process.
Originally Posted by Bop HeadLast edited by Jimmy Smith; 01-24-2024 at 01:07 AM.
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Originally Posted by AllanAllen
If soon as you start to hear chords as related to a tonic instead of chord names you will be independent of a certain key.
I realized that what I had considered a bad habit -- I used to transpose everything to C to understand a written chord sequence better because I had learned harmony theory in C -- turned out as something good as soon as I started to use the Roman numerals instead of chord names in relation to a C tonic and connect them with a sound. Those two videos are by pianists, on guitar we can simply shift everything around which makes it even easier. But you have to connect a sound with those numerals. I started ear training in this regard 35 years ago so it became second nature.
Recently I went to a jazz session and sat in for Night And Day among other tunes. The singer wanted to do it in Bb (original key Eb) and after the set the bassist, an old friend and a top professional who spent several years in NYC and went to the New School, complimented me for being able to transpose the tune on the fly. But I explained to him that I did not transpose. The sound of Night And Day for me is not Cbmaj7 going to Bb7 to Ebmaj7 but bVImaj7 going to V7 to Imaj7. If I know we are in the key of Bb I know the root of I is on the 6th string at the 6th fret and from there I know where the other chords are without thinking about their names. I know e.g. the bVI root is on the 5th string 3 frets up etc.
I like Peter Martin of Open Studio calling this "playing in the key of music".
EDIT: I had learned harmony theory in C because I had figured everything out on keyboard instruments and C was the easiest key for a non-player on keys.Last edited by Bop Head; 01-24-2024 at 05:04 AM.
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Originally Posted by Bop Head
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Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
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Originally Posted by pamosmusic
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Originally Posted by Bop Head
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Originally Posted by AllanAllen
- deliberate transcribing while practicing with the instrument (as long as you want)
- incidental transcribing while away from the instrument (the duration of what you heard)
- real time transcribing while performing (putting it to the instrument now, and anticipating what's coming)
The first decribes a highly focused but not time urgent activity putting the sound to the instrument, the second describes hearing and holding it for later to be put to the instrument, the third is what happens when you've been fortunate to have been the host band's guitarist for over ten years of weekly open mic, routinely playing music you've never heard with people you've just met.
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Originally Posted by pamosmusic
*) e.g. the Goodrick "Advanced Guitarist" approach to scales and a few exercises shown to me by a friend who originally was a world-class classical guitarist.
**) I have somewhere the US Keyboard magazine with that article about Barry Harris by Howard Rees. I knew notation from my recorder and classical piano lessons as a kid but at that time I did not want to bother too much with it. I was an ear player playing in a rock band and I had bought the magazine because of something related to sound engineering.
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Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
It's like those Rick Beato videos where the click bait title is 'is this garbage REALLY the Spotify top ten?' and the actual video is usually more nuanced.
YES it's annoying. and YES I'll be doing the same sort of thing myself (as much as I can stomach it).Last edited by Christian Miller; 01-24-2024 at 06:37 AM.
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Originally Posted by Bop Head
What was the last solo/head you transcribed?
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
- I am working on the melody of the bridge of Afternoon in Paris
- I have finally finished There Will Never Be Another You (was always unsure about the changes of the last 8)
- I learned Night And Day
- I repeated Mercy, Mercy, Mercy which I learned by ear 30 years ago
- I learned the correct form of Cantaloup Island
- I am working on the changes of the bridge of Cry Me A River
- I am working on the changes of the bridge of If You Could See Me Now
- I am constantly repeating Born To Be Blue
- I have to repeat On Green Dolphin Street (changes of last 8) and How High The Moon
- I have to learn the Cootie Williams interlude (that Barry Harry sometimes uses as pre-intro) and the Dizzy coda of 'Round Midnight (a tune I am constantly working on since maybe 3 years and finally distilled some kind of essence of the Monk changes)
- I have to learn the interlude of A Night In Tunesia.
- I have to finally starting to transcribe a whole solo, so far I am rather picking up licks here and there.
I learn the melodies of the above mentioned tunes by ear by listening to as many different versions of a tune as possible and use the help of sheet music if I get stuck with the changes which happens less and less often.
What I am working on a lot is improvising with mainly chord tones and tones of substitution chords and approaching and surrounding them. I try to improvise with the melody in mind. And I am working a whole lot on comping with shell chords and how to substitute and approach those.
I go to as many sessions as possible (straight ahead yesterday, manouche tonight) and I am in the process of contacting people to play with regularly which hopefully will lead to a gigging band.
As you can see, I do a little more musically than just watching YouTube. As for most of the things that interest me on YouTube the visual aspect is not so important, I am listening to them while doing other mechanical things like e.g. cooking, doing the dishes or cleaning.
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Originally Posted by Bop Head
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Nice. I think I myself would struggle to focus on so many different things at one time. I seem to be able to concentrate on maximum three things at any one time. I habitualise some things like reading practice and so on so that I remember to do them. I’m usually working on one tune at any point.
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
Now off to the blues session to sing and play a little. "Thursday's also sad. The eagle flies on friday."
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You want to get good at improvising.... learn how to rhythmically develop solos.
I'm somewhat joking.... but most solos get boring quick because the player has no rhythm ...or skilled use of rhythmic development.
My personal order of most important aspects of a solo...
1) Rhythmic
2) Harmonic
3) Melodic
Keep in mind... the melody is always already played at least 2xs with every tune.
Jam Session Journal (April 2024)
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