I think improvisation is overrated

[emanresu]

I don't know what you mean here.

By normal people I meant people not involved in "the business", sorry. This case, improvisation.
They look and notice completely different things than the ones we worry about the most.

[joelf]

Actually, a version of transcribe/analyze was standard when I was an undergrad (we were reading poems on clay tablets), though it was entirely via classical prosody and rhetoric without the linguistics angle. (The semantics/semiotics side of poetry is a whole different set of concerns--also addressed by Eddie Epstein, but distinct from what I think of as the "music" side.)

What made Eddie's method so powerful was the way it could apply to prose--or ordinary (if aesthetically shaped) speech. And it helps to understand what a performer can do with anything from Shakespeare to an Ira Gershwin lyric--or rap, for that matter. And I've noticed that it affects the way I hear musical phrasing as well--one reason I find it useful to know the lyrics to tunes that have them.

But I'd better stop before I get to the "everything is everything" stage.

I suppose the undercarriage to you broaching this is as a parallel to music and the way it's taught?

If so I find that transcribing---1st by ear, then notation---and postmortem analysis works well for even my beginner students once I glean that they're ready.

When I started this teaching gig for Music and Arts (an arm of Guitar Center) I sort of waltzed through it, Wasn't up for it somehow. But recently as my mood, desire to help these people and my teaching approach/skill set improved I began having students listen to easy to learn songs on YouTube (where else?) and fumble around on guitar to find 1st the melody notes, 2nd bass notes, 3rd chord quality (which they can get when melodies outline changes, as they often do). If the fumbling is too pronounced I ask if they can sing that 1st phrase. (And they've taught me that you can slow the speed down in settings---frickin' amazing!! Hell, I'll use that myself, taking solos off.)

Fast forward to where they have gotten it together, then notated it, That's when I can help with analysis, having already taught them that chords come from scales and the Roman numeral system. It seems to work, and is an important adjunct to just doing books, which can be one-dimensional and also bore them.

So listening to YouTube songs is the auditory equivalent to reading poetry for our students...

[Spirit59]

Lawson, you might want to cut a little slack for those who enjoy conversations about the music (history, construction, appreciation) even if they don't perform it. I have been a reviewer for more than forty years--primarily of books, but for a while of music* without ever writing any fiction or performing music on a pro level--though often with pros, and for long enough to have grown a decent set of ears.

An analogous situation: I'm not really a poet** but I'm very good at teaching how to read poetry. (Extensive professional qualifications and experience.) The "you shouldn't comment if you don't do it" position reminds me of "those who can't, teach," which I can assure everyone ain't the case. On the other hand, I'm not about to critique the playing of anyone here, because in this environment, my role is audience, not mentor or instructor. (I might have analytical reactions, but I keep them to myself.)

* A dozen years, for Acoustic Guitar magazine.
** Though my first professional publication, about 60 years ago, was a poem.

Not to mention - you've got a great name!

I really should get my will (as in last will & testament) together, so if I pass into the great beyond first, I can be sure you will own my domain name!

Russ Letson

[Jimmy Smith]

I think improvisation is overrated.

[Ahz]

(see also jazz and poverty. Conrad Cork wrote a fantastic article about this once. Many things shape the material conditions and the art.)

Google has failed me. Can you provide a link to this article?

Also, regarding the classical performers and their academic navel gazing.... I am a glutton for punishment. Feed me please

[Christian Miller]

Google has failed me. Can you provide a link to this article?

Not really - It’s in a book called ‘A New Guide to Harmony with Lego Bricks’ if that helps. I googled it and some potential pdfs came up. Although I think the book may be in print. Not quite sure.


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[Bop Head]

Not really - It’s in a book called ‘A New Guide to Harmony with Lego Bricks’ if that helps. I googled it and some potential pdfs came up. Although I think the book may be in print. Not quite sure.


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The Books – Insights In Jazz

[Ahz]

Not really - It’s in a book called ‘A New Guide to Harmony with Lego Bricks’ if that helps. I googled it and some potential pdfs came up. Although I think the book may be in print. Not quite sure.

Thanks! I saw that book in my googling, I'll keep looking

[GuyBoden]

The Books – Insights In Jazz

The original book was by Conrad Cork, I have it somewhere.

[Bop Head]

The original book was by Conrad Cork, I have it somewhere.

It's Cork's book that his student John Elliot is selling as a PDF from his site for 16.99 GBP

Harmony with LEGO Bricks – Insights In Jazz

[GuyBoden]

It's Cork's book that his student John Elliot is selling as a PDF from his site for 16.99 GBP

Harmony with LEGO Bricks – Insights In Jazz

I have both books. I prefer the updated Elliot book.

[AllanAllen]

It's Cork's book that his student John Elliot is selling as a PDF from his site for 16.99 GBP

Harmony with LEGO Bricks – Insights In Jazz

That's a lot of scratch for the convenience of printing and binding it myself. I didn't expect to get behind the times so quickly.

[Bop Head]

That's a lot of scratch for the convenience of printing and binding it myself. I didn't expect to get behind the times so quickly.

Guys, why do you comment on links without reading them or at least looking at them?

"There is also a limited number of copies of the print-edition of NGHLB remaining for sale on a first-come-first-served basis from Jazzhouse Records."

I once borrowed a printed copy from the Bavarian State Library for free. (And liked Elliot's own book better which I have as a PDF on my Tolino ebook reader.)

[AllanAllen]

Guys, why do you comment on links without reading them or at least looking at them?

"There is also a limited number of copies of the print-edition of NGHLB remaining for sale on a first-come-first-served basis from Jazzhouse Records."

I once borrowed a printed copy from the Bavarian State Library for free. (And liked Elliot's own book better which I have as a PDF on my Tolino ebook reader.)

The paper copies are gone, they were printed 3 years ago.

As for eReaders. After replacing my kindle the third time, I looked around at all my paper books that cost the same, if not less used, and don't rely on a device to work and gave up on readers.

[Bop Head]

The paper copies are gone, they were printed 3 years ago.

As for eReaders. After replacing my kindle the third time, I looked around at all my paper books that cost the same, if not less used, and don't rely on a device to work and gave up on readers.

I bought a used Android tablet recently for 15 EUR incl. cover to use it with iReal Pro and Drumgenius. (The Tolino cost 150 IIRC and has a smaller display which is "e-ink" which some might prefer.)

[MadeulPlaysGuitar]

Three years ago I decided I should stop noodling and get serious about pursuing jazz guitar. I started arranging a chord melody tune every week and posting the video. After a while it got tedious and I gave up... only to resume about a month ago. Now I can't be bothered working things out in advance, so I just improvise.

What I notice when I force myself to improvise:

• I play less cool stuff (because skills)
• I have more fun playing
• It actually takes me fewer takes to get a publishable version
• I connect just as much with the outcome, but in a slightly different way

Now, obviously I've been practicing in the interim, so some of those observations might not necessarily be attributable to improvising vs. playing an arrangement.