How do you practice phrasing?

[pamosmusic]

Attempting not to hijack Jack Z’s thread about starting phrases off the beat.

How do y’all practice some of the looser elements of phrasing?

I revisited an old exercise recently, just starting phrases on different parts of the measure.

So say it’s a Cm7 to F7 in 4/4.

Play a four beat phrase starting on beat one of Cm and ending on beat one of F7. Do that for a bit and then move the phrase so that it starts and ends on beat two, then three, then four, then starts on beat one of F7 and ends on Cm.

Obviously can make it a five or six beat phrase with less rest. Or a four measure set of chords with an eight beat phrase (or nine or ten or whatever).

It’s a bit trickier than it sounds really seems to help with being deliberate about phrases, varying phrase length, leaving rest, and playing across bar lines.

What else do y’all have?

[mr. beaumont]

That moving beat exercise is a real eye opener.

I try to write a melody over a set of changes that's very "straight" originally, then I try to pretend my guitar is Billie Holiday's voice when I play it.

[bako]

Emphasizing different notes in the same phrase as if they are the main event in the line.

[AllanAllen]

I try to write a melody over a set of changes that's very "straight" originally, then I try to pretend my guitar is Billie Holiday's voice when I play it.

Funny enough, this is what I do too. I'll even change the melody to fit in one octave and manipulate it as much as I can, thinking of Holiday's small range but highly emotive style. Then I'll move that lick around, because by this point that's what I have.

I'll also cop licks from other solos. I still feel like I'm flying by the seat of my pants so if I can start a solo strong I start thinking about how to end it well, I let the old lizard brain take over in the middle while I try to think of how to end. Unless there's a part I can really highlight like a IV -> iv in the bridge, I do key centers... but I'm dipping my toes in the endless arpeggio stuff again... what was the question? Oh yeah, Gerry Mulligan/Chet Baker is my favorite version of Moonlight in Vermont.

[pamosmusic]

Funny enough, this is what I do too. I'll even change the melody to fit in one octave and manipulate it as much as I can, thinking of Holiday's small range but highly emotive style. Then I'll move that lick around, because by this point that's what I have.

Oh interesting. What do you feel like you get from the octave displacement like that? I like that, I think. Mostly just because I like weird puzzles … curious what prompted you to that.

[AllanAllen]

The octave displacement came from trying to play Wes style octave runs for a head (specifically Softly As in a Morning Sunrise). I didn't like jumping from index ring to index pinky so I would jump octaves to keep the same fingers. Then I liked how it would scramble the melody, so I started practicing it in single lines too.

[ragman1]

Being an ex-singer, I tend to phrase like one. I know about starting on different beats that cross bar lines, etc, and I admire it. But, to be honest, when I try it it feels very awkward and takes the joy out of playing.

So I just start and stop when I feel it's right, I don't try to make myself do something unnatural to me. But all kudos to those who do it and do it well.

[AaronMColeman]

Being an ex-singer, I tend to phrase like one. I know about starting on different beats that cross bar lines, etc, and I admire it. But, to be honest, when I try it it feels very awkward and takes the joy out of playing.

So I just start and stop when I feel it's right, I don't try to make myself do something unnatural to me. But all kudos to those who do it and do it well.

I try to hum along, not to create melody from my humming, but mostly to keep my phrasing within the timeframe of a breath. Singers and horn players naturally have to do this. We have the luxury of being able to work without breath, but it sounds so much more organic if we pay attention to "breath" in phrasing.

The octave displacement thing is pretty fun! I've been playing the head to several tunes, 1-2 bars in one octave 1-2 in the next and keep swapping. It has helped my phrasing in a lot of ways and forces me to think rather than just play.

[ragman1]

I never sing when I play. The playing is the singing, if that makes sense.

[Bop Head]

I found those videos very interesting:

This relates to singing but can be of use for playing the head instrumentally as well. (I am a strong advocate of learning lyrics, helps remembering the tune as well as keeping my 50 years old brain in function.)

Garry Dial is continuing the teachings of Charlie Banacos:

Dr. Barry Harris on singing ballads, can of course be related to playing as well:

[rpjazzguitar]

My phrasing is better when I scat sing, even silently.

But, for some reason, I don't always do it.

My practice is scatting a line, then playing it.

In the unlikely event that my playing catches up with my scat singing, then I might need to transcribe something to take it further.

[AaronMColeman]

I never sing when I play. The playing is the singing, if that makes sense.

Makes great sense. When I "hum" along I'm not really setting a melody or even really a rhythm, it's just the breathing that's important to me. I'm not good enough to sing along.

[ragman1]

I like phrases as opposed to continuous motion. I do things in spurts. I used to run a lot, for years, and always preferred to do it in bits rather than mindlessly keep going for hours on end.

[kris]

The best method for me is to use my ears.

[PatrickWD]

One exercise i like is trying to play various combinations of phrase length. As an example: two short phrases and one long, or one medium long one followed by three short. This can be combined with starting on different beats.

In the beginning this will make it really hard to be creative, but as with everything you practice it will become a part of your playing after a while. It forces you to try new things, as the kind of phrases you usually play don't always fit into these kinds of patterns.


I also developed my own exercise i called the 4 phrase exercise. This is an exercise i use to try to improve my control over intensity and direction between phrases. It goes like this: Take a starting phrase you like, and then try to create four possible phrases as the next phrase to follow that one.

1. The first phrase should be up in note hight and down in intensity
2. The second should be up in note hight and up in intensity
3. The thirds should be down in note hight and up in intensity
4. The last one should be down in note hight and up in intensity.

[pamosmusic]

The best method for me is to use my ears.

I do like to try to improve my ears from time to time though.

[kris]

I do like to try to improve my ears from time to time though.

A musician should improve his hearing all his life and that's what I do.

[Lionelsax]

I try to do this...

Or that...

[pamosmusic]

A musician should improve his hearing all his life and that's what I do.

Right … which is what the little games and exercises and practice ideas are for.

If I just play “what I hear” I’ll just be playing what I hear name. Eventually some new stuff will slip in. But if I know there are sounds I’d like to hear more, I’ll try to think of a way to expose my ear to those sounds as much as possible.

Like little exercises to get myself playing over the barline.

[kris]

Right … which is what the little games and exercises and practice ideas are for.

If I just play “what I hear” I’ll just be playing what I hear name. Eventually some new stuff will slip in. But if I know there are sounds I’d like to hear more, I’ll try to think of a way to expose my ear to those sounds as much as possible.

Like little exercises to get myself playing over the barline.

It's true, there are a lot of interesting educational materials that can be some kind of inspiration.
But it's all about hearing the right notes and building phrases that you have to accept to hear it all.

[pamosmusic]

It's true, there are a lot of interesting educational materials that can be some kind of inspiration.
But it's all about hearing the right notes and building phrases that you have to accept to hear it all.

Im not talking about educational materials. I’m talking about thinking about what I’d like to hear in my playing and developing practice ideas to make those things better.

That’s just like …….. practicing.

I don’t think most folks just came into the world being able to hear a sharp nine chord. We grew accustomed to the sound by exposure to the sound. So it’s not necessarily reasonable to expect to just magically phrase in interesting, unexpected ways. Sometimes it helps to work through some of those things deliberately.

[kris]

That's why musicians learn from other musicians.
You can also learn phrasing....You need to have analytical listening skills.It is a lot of work.

[pamosmusic]

That's why musicians learn from other musicians.
You can also learn phrasing....You need to have analytical listening skills.It is a lot of work.

I mean … where would you imagine I got the notion that jazz musicians phrase over the barline?

From analytical listening.

Sometimes though it’s helpful to think of a way to practice the thing I gleaned from the analytical listening. Maybe it’s different for you, but the focused listening has to be followed by pretty focused practicing for me, or it doesn’t always come out.

[CliffR]

For myself, I find that even the simplest of ideas has to be practiced over and over again before it comes out in my playing. For the longest time I didn't realise this and would watch video after video about, for example, pivot arpeggios and nod along sagely, thinking 'that sounds great', then spend very little time trying to do it myself, and be left wondering why I couldn't play them.

[PatrickWD]

For myself, I find that even the simplest of ideas has to be practiced over and over again before it comes out in my playing. For the longest time I didn't realise this and would watch video after video about, for example, pivot arpeggios and nod along sagely, thinking 'that sounds great', then spend very little time trying to do it myself, and be left wondering why I couldn't play them.

The same for me. Things need to be practiced over a long time period before it comes out naturally without sounding forced.