Not new, but maybe not discussed enough either

[rpjazzguitar]

In reading threads about finding sounds from theory, I am reminded of this. I think it may be how musicians found sounds before theoretical knowledge was as widespread as it is now.

Consider the iim7 V7 Imaj7.

For the iim7 let's sub in a iim9, say x5355x. Dm9.

And,for the Imaj7, we can play it straight or maybe sub in Imaj9, say,x3243x. Cmaj9.

In between, for the V7, you have a lot of choices. I'll list some.

G7
G13
G7b13
G7b9
G7#11
G7#9

The last four above involve one alteration from the original G7. You can raise or lower the 5th and you can raise or lower the 9th. That's 4 different chords and each chord has a scale associated with it, if you choose to think about it that way.

You can then alter two notes at a time:

G7#9b13
G7b9b13
G7b9#11
G7#9#11

And so forth.

I'll stop listing them here, thereby omitting three and four alterations at a time. Other sounds are possible; e.g. putting the altered notes in different octaves changes the sound. How you handle the 6th (G7b9 vs G13b9 -- sound different). And, whatever other options I'm forgetting. And, you can find alternatives to Gsomething which will work too, like Fm6 or Bb7 or whatever sounds good to you.

Now you can insert each one of them into that Dm9 Gsomething Cmaj9.

So, finally coming to the point -- you can hear all these sounds by playing the chords. And, once you get the sounds you like in your ears, they're easy enough to find. For a large number, all you have to do is alter the fifth and/or ninth. You can think, "all white keys, except ...".

Now, this isn't a new way to do something. But, I like it because it makes direct connections between a common chord progression in jazz, with the actual chords you'll play, with what they sound like, and with how to get the same sound into a solo.

I think it's an advantage not to have to think about scale names, which can change dramatically because you changed one note. So, you go from thinking white keys (G mixo) to thinking "Glyddom or Dmelmin" because you moved C to C#; why not think "G7#11 scale"? Or you want the sound of G7b9b13 and have to think "5th mode C harmonic minor". Maybe better to think "G7b9b13 scale".

Some posts recently have triggered a reaction to think, "why ask the forum about whether that scale will work? Try it!". Nowadays, the widespread availability of backing tracks and looping make it easy.

[Reg]

Hey Rick... good thread. I actually do... do that a lot.... I just don't need to think about scales... if I see or hear a chord or chord pattern I already hear or think of the possibilities... kind or an interaction or reaction thing.

I'm at Baltic this late afternoon... your always welcome... next sunday back at Ocean ... should be smokin, Timmy will be kickin bass and keys and we do tend to get after it... come sit in.
Reg

[rpjazzguitar]

Hey Rick... good thread. I actually do... do that a lot.... I just don't need to think about scales... if I see or hear a chord or chord pattern I already hear or think of the possibilities... kind or an interaction or reaction thing.

I'm at Baltic this late afternoon... your always welcome... next sunday back at Ocean ... should be smokin, Timmy will be kickin bass and keys and we do tend to get after it... come sit in.
Reg

I'm subbing at the Baltic on the 6th. Might be able to get by there later. I was planning on going to the Goat for their Brazilian thing today.

[rpjazzguitar]

Another point, perhaps hijacking my own thread.

There's always a lot of discussion about how to find new sounds. Often, with complicated prescriptions which would require massive amounts of time to complete.

My favorite example is a post on another forum recommending pairing every triad (maj, min, dim, aug) with every other triad and then playing each pair against every bass note. How is that for somebody who struggles to incorporate a single sound into his playing?

Speaking only for myself, the last thing I need to work on is finding new sounds. I'd be much better off working on making better jazz with the handful of sounds I already know.

There's a video of Jimmy Bruno absolutely burning while playing the notes of a Bbmaj7 against a Bbmaj7. Great time, great feel and great melody. If you can't approach doing that, should you really be spending a lot of time searching for new sounds?

If you can hear and execute major scales in several ways, you can play a lot of standards. You get major, minor, dominant and half dim.

At that point, the fastest way to improve is to start playing with the very best players who will have you. Pay them if necessary. Do the legwork to get gigs - whatever. Host jam sessions. You will find a way to improve.

EDIT: I just deleted a whole bunch of BS I wrote about Reg. Don't want to embarrass him.

But, for those who are interested, he's got many videos on youtube Reg523 where you can see and hear exactly what he's doing.

Of course, there are many more things to learn, but if you know enough to play with others, don't wait!

[Reg]

Lol Rick your just a really good person… thanks for kind words
yea I played sailing goat… what a name, two weeks ago
was really fun gig ,,,packed and great crowd
Food was really good, for a yacht club
see ya soon
reg

[ccroft]

...There's a video of Jimmy Bruno absolutely burning while playing the notes of a Bbmaj7 against a Bbmaj7. Great time, great feel and great melody. If you can't approach doing that, should you really be spending a lot of time searching for new sounds?

Nice thread and I hate to break in on the love fest :-), but this is something I always think of when I see threads like the one where the guy's saying he needs to work on his time, how he's not going anywhere, and coming up with an exercise for harmony understanding and fret-board knowledge.

Like... learn how to make music. Play some modal stuff. Don't get consumed by 'making the changes' when you're having a hard time with that.

Don't get me wrong. I've spent as much time as anybody on exercises. Like Reg always says, you must have the chops. But if you're feeling stuck it's not bad advice to have some fun. It can be so deadly serious if you start seeing it as just a series of hurdles to get over. All you start seeing in yourself is all the things you can't do, the frustration builds, and pretty soon you can't do music at all.

Sounds like things are happening wherever you guys are. It's nice to see some folks getting out and doing it!

[pingu]

That's good to remember !

First there is music

Then (optionally) there is theory ....