Modal Expansion, the Blue Notes and the Melodic Minor

[Tal_175]

This discussion evolved in an unrelated thread, so I am just moving it to a new thread:

I asked Reg about "Developing [functional] subs through modal interchange, blue notes and MM".

Reg's explanation was:

So modal interchange can also be.... your changing the tonic and also use Modal organization. Functional movement becomes about Characteristic pitch usage.
Modal interchange is just changing the Tonal Reference... which becomes Modal reference. Which open the door to more options of chord patterns to voice melodic ideas, licks etc. And I like to use MM to frame Blue Notes which is a different sound and organization than playing in a rock, rock blues etc.. style

Ex.

Gmaj to Cmaj vanilla version

X X 5 7 7 X
3 X 2 2 3 X

X 3 2 4 5 X
X 7 5 7 7 X
8 X 7 7 8 X

Becomes ... This is just example... and I would probable develop the lead line rhythmically and create harmonic patterns etc...

X 10 9 11 10 9......Gma9#11
X 9 7 9 10 X ......F#-7

X 8 7 8 7 7 X.....C9#11 (this would be a triplet feel)
X 7 8 7 8 X .......E-7b5
X 9 8 9 10 X .....F#7#9
X 10 8 10 11 X .G-7
X X 8 9 10 8 .....C13
X X 8 9 10 10 ...F#7#9

I thought we can use this example of other simple progressions to expand on this subject.

[Tal_175]

This is my interpretation of how Reg's example works:

The original progression: G maj - C maj (I-IV).

G maj reharmonized as:

X 10 9 11 10 9......Gma9#11
X 9 7 9 10 X ......F#-7

Explanation:
G Maj -> E min (functional sub)
E min -> E MM (modal interchange)

So, Gaug maj and F#-7 are the IIImaj and iimin of E MM and the #11 of G is the blue note in MM context.

C maj reharmonized as:
X 8 7 8 7 7 X.....C9#11 (this would be a triplet feel)
X 7 8 7 8 X .......E-7b5
X 9 8 9 10 X .....F#7#9
X 10 8 10 11 X .G-7
X X 8 9 10 8 .....C13
X X 8 9 10 10 ...F#7#9

Explanation:
C maj -> C7 (bluesy reharmonization of the IVmaj chord as IV7)
C7 -> C Lydian dominant ie. C7#11 (Modal interchange to G MM), #11 the blue note.
The rest is playing off of C7 with common subs (tritone, ii-V, iii-7b5).

Is this correct, Reg?

[Reg]

hey Tal.... in right direction. And yes it can be that simple.

I'll contribute whatever you need me to do... I do have a couple gigs today... but will check in later

[Tal_175]

hey Tal.... in right direction. And yes it can be that simple.

I'll contribute whatever you need me to do... I do have a couple gigs today... but will check in later

You often talk about expanding substitutions further with modal interchange, blue notes and MM with a tonal reference. It wasn't clear to me what exactly you meant until I analyzed this example. I wanted to create the thread because I believe this wasn't obvious to some of the other forum members as well.

I can see using these sorts of ideas when playing solo guitar, but in a combo setting these reharmonizations need to be discussed in advance, no? I mean, maybe the soloist can diverge to these tangents and resolve down the line, but when I'm in a comping role, I don't know if I could do these without upsetting the soloist. Do you discuss reharmonizations with the band or do you expect the soloist adapt on the fly?

[wolflen]

nice prog...


?? this chord X 8 7 8 7 7 X..C9#11..?? seven strings ??

fingering 8 7 8 77 x C E Bb D F#

I let the chords ring slowly (al la Fender Rhodes) and ended with--all one note at a time

C G E 8 10 x 9 x x

Bb F D 6 8 x 7 x x

A G C D 5 x 5 5 3 x

[Reg]

Hey Tal... Kind of depends how one uses them. personally that's just part of how I play. Even when I work in BB's.

The somewhat...trick is rhythmically how and where you use them etc...

Think about how you use enclosures or any melodic device....why do notes out of the diatonic moment work.

A few reasons, right. Basically while I'm comping (or soloing), I use chordal devices... as means for expanding the basic changes. Kind of like I've always said.... there is this basic reference... and create a new relationship with that reference... and then I develop it. I try and do this with musical organization. Usually is as simple as it looks.

One of the differences of my playing is I use... like your thread title.... Modal, blue notes and MM as part of how I harmonically develop and use those devices. The big door that I tend to open is subdominant functional harmony...
not just traditional functional harmony. Borrowing with more options to create relationships using modal and Blue note and MM.... I've always liked the Dorian and MM relationships with Blue notes.

Pick a simple standard... and we can play through examples. Which might help with usage.

[Tal_175]

It seems to me like a major tune would be a better choice than a minor tune to demonstrate how to use these devices without clashing. I think it would be easier to apply them in minor tunes but maybe I'm wrong. Some suggestions: Days of Wine and Roses, Just Friends, How High the Moon.

Is it better to pick a tune with a minor section or with a dominant cycle? Or blues?