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Have any of you used checked these books out? I got the first book last week and just started into it. So far, I really like it. I definitely think it will keep me occupied for the summer.
The basic premises are in keeping with a lot of other threads on here lately: do a lot of playing of tunes; use your ear to guide your playing; learn everything in all keys; sing along with your improv and melody lines; transcribe from the masters.
The book is broken down into 52 lessons - one per week for a whole year, I guess. Each lesson is to be played daily in full, and is comprised of:
- JOI Solo Pattern: a phrase selected from one of the two-daily songs in that lesson, to be transcribed and played in all 12 keys
- Jazz Hanon: a scalar exercise (similar to the famous piano exercises of the same name), to be played both ascending and descending, diatonically
- Chord voicings: some nice (and sometimes surprising) chords, clearly based on piano voicings, but which translate to the guitar well if a few modifications are made - nice to use for active comping lines
- A blues, complete with harmony and melody
- A tune based off of a standard, with harmony and melody
It takes about an hour to get through each lesson (so far, at least). We'll have to see where it takes me, once I get a few more weeks into it.
EDIT: Here's a link to the actual book: http://www.amazon.com/Joy-Improv-Book-1-Piano/dp/0793578779/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1273068692&sr=8-1.
Amazon has mistitled the book "Piano" - but it's for all instruments, and has specific guidelines for guitarists in it.
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05-05-2010 10:11 AM
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No, I don't. I work in the telcomm industry. Those who have spent time around here would know that I am a regular poster on this board, not a plant.
What I'm really looking for is others who have worked through these books, so I can share with them.
EDIT: this post was in response to someone asking if I was an advertisement working for the publishers/authors. Looks like that post got deleted since I replied.Last edited by FatJeff; 05-11-2010 at 04:18 PM.
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FatJeff... thx 4 posting, add it to the Dirk Top list
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Could U please tell more about it.. I never gone through a tune(standard) course divided into daily practice routine.. So here my question is it more chord/scale lessons or realy a Tune analiss routine?? What Tunes and play-alongs??
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Hi Drobniuch,
No, it is not a chord/scale method. The closest they get to actual scale exercises are the "Hanon" exercises in each lesson (which actually get fairly challenging pretty fast, at least on the guitar). These exercises are melodic fragments, based on scales, which ascend and then descend diatonically. You're supposed to take these through all 12 keys. Guess they're good for the fingers - this part of each lesson is the part that most feels like "work" or "practice".
There is some chord work to be done in each lesson as well, but I'm finding the voicings to be very nice and they lend well to smooth voice leading. The voicings seem to be pretty piano-centric, so in some cases they don't lay out well on the fretboard unless you take some liberties (which they actually talk about in the book - they suggest for guitarists to select the top 3 voices and play those, which seems to work OK). And they also use rootless voicings fairly liberally, which is pretty hip for noobs (for instance you play an Ebmaj7 form on the top 4 strings in place of Cm7, which leads to a nice minor 9 sound).
I think that one of the strengths of the book is that they get you playing a blues and a standard-type song right away, and you do that every day. However, the "standards" are original tunes based on classic chord progressions, so they don't specifically build your repertoire, but they do get you used to hearing the changes. I also like the fact that you start playing minor blues almost immediately (in lesson 2).
So far I think the thing that has been most beneficial to me is working on the solo patterns. Basically, you get a new lick worked into your repertoire each week. That's something that I definitely need.
Anyway, if someone else decides to check out this book, I'd be interested in hearing their opinion on it. I'm not saying it's the end-all and be-all of jazz improv books, but it is making playing for 2 hours* a day pretty enjoyable. I definitely need a break this summer from the drudgery of chords and scales and modes and Parker heads that I am getting in school.
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* I'm spending more time on the lessons each day than just an hour, because I'm actually recording the chord progressions for both tunes with a metronome, and then playing the melody on top of that when I play it back. This has been helping me internalize the chord voicings and the changes.
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One thing I forgot to mention is that each lesson also includes transcribing a tune from one of the masters. The transcriptions are chronological, so right now I'm working in Louis Armstrong tunes, but later comes Lester Young, Charlie Christian, Bird, Fats Navarro, Clifford Brown, Lee Morgan, Wes, Ella Fitzgerald, Stan Getz, Paul Desmond, Miles, Coltrane, Freddie Hubbard, Pat Martino, Michael Brecker, and Pat Metheny. Quite a lineup!
What I'm doing to internalize the first tune is maybe overkill, but it's working: I've taken the 40-second trumpet solo to "Struttin With Some BBQ" and burned it onto a CD 35 times in a row. That makes for about 23 minutes of music, just long enough to occupy me on my commute to and from work. I have been scatting along with the solo as I drive (people on the roads think I'm crazy). I think by this evening I'll have it to the point where I can sit down and write out the notes. Then I'll learn it on the fretboard. (Interestingly, this is the same method that Brad Goode teaches in his intro to improv class at school.)
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Thanks for the review Jeff, I like the structure which should make it easy to stay on track and measure progress.
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Thanks alot for that great review Jeff. All I need is another book on improv!
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Yeah, that's what I thought too, but so far this one is pretty fun. Other "methods" I've checked out were anything but fun. Being pretty much ADHD, it's hard for me to stay focused for any length of time unless I'm really, really interested in the subject.
It would be cool to get a group of people working through it and reporting on their progress, kind of like they did over on the Gear Page with "Super Chops" in this thread: TGP Collective Super Chops Thread (Course Started 02/01/2010) - The Gear Page. In the meantime I'll just keep plugging away.
Q: You know how many ADHD kids it takes to screw in a lightbulb?
A: Hey look, a puppy!
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Yeah, that was my whole point, this thing looks great! Crap! And I am totally on board with the adult ADHD thing. My mom always says I was a classic case as a kid.
Originally Posted by FatJeff
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Correction to original post: the first book is 26 lessons, and the second book (which I just ordered today) is another 26 lessons.
Hey Derek, let me know if you get it and what you think!
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Here's the solo for the first week, just in case anyone is interested. Louis Armstrong's trumpet solo on "Struttin' with some BBQ".
https://docs.google.com/fileview?id=...M2M2NDVh&hl=en
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B0O...NDZmY2Ey&hl=enLast edited by FatJeff; 05-15-2010 at 06:25 PM.
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Just ordered the book on your recommendation. Sounds interesting and useful.
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05-11-2010, 12:32 PM #14jeffstocksmusic Guest
Looks like a nice book/method.
Count me in. I am going to stop by our local sheet music store and see if they have it. If not, I'll order it. Let's keep each other posted on the progress.
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It definitely is fun, that's for sure. I don't know about the "monster chops" claim they make on the front cover, but I feel that it will solidify and improve my current ability.
I was planning on starting Lesson 2 today. Had kind of a slow, relaxing week last week...just finished out my spring semester and needed to take a short break before getting into something else again.
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05-12-2010, 09:12 AM #16jeffstocksmusic GuestThis is also exactly how Lennie Tristano taught Lee and Warne. I read Lee's book and he talks about having to sing Bird solos note for note as lessons. Lee and Warne apparently made their students do the same thing. My teacher is out of that school as well and makes me sing just about everything.I have been scatting along with the solo as I drive (people on the roads think I'm crazy). I think by this evening I'll have it to the point where I can sit down and write out the notes. Then I'll learn it on the fretboard. (Interestingly, this is the same method that Brad Goode teaches in his intro to improv class at school.)
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Good to know I'm in solid company, then. If it's good enough for Lennie it's good enough for me. Who are Lee and Warne, BTW? Originally Posted by jeffstocksmusic
Played through the Lesson 2 material for the first time last night - spent about 2 hours on it total. The new "lick" is pretty easy, and I think generic enough to use over most long minor ii-V-is. I took it through all 12 keys, playing it starting on both the 4th and 5th strings. The new Hanon exercise is tricky though - lots of string skipping - and I'm having trouble with some of the chord voicings for the tunes. Part of the trouble is that the chords are written out in bass clef (I assume with the intent of being played by the left hand on a piano), and I'm not as quick with the bass clef as I am with the treble clef. Also, when I just play the top 3 notes of the 4-note voicings, it sometimes leaves out a crucial chord tone, so that when played by itself, it does not state the underlying harmony very well. So, I'm falling back on some stock drop-2 and drop-3 voicings from time to time. No worries, though - they even say in the book's intro to not make a study out of the chords themselves, as they will eventually sink in with repetition (the total number of voicings used in the whole book is fairly small, maybe 50).
The new solo I'm having to learn is another Louis Armstrong tune, "The Last Time", recorded about 1925. In fact, the first 5 or so lessons are all LA! This is fine with me - I don't have a lot of exposure to this material (esp. his real early stuff), so it's good to hear it all. Also, it occurred to me in listening to some of these songs that the basis for "I Got Rhythm" is already very present in many of these songs! Ira Gershwin certainly did not come up with the I-VI-ii-V chord progression by himself. :-)
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05-12-2010, 10:03 AM #18jeffstocksmusic GuestLee Konitz and Warne Marsh.Who are Lee and Warne, BTW?
I just ordered the book so it should be in early next week. Can't wait to get started. I really skipped right over early jazz like Louis and started right in the middle (Trane, Shorter, etc). It will be great to have a nice systematic way to dealing w/ what those original guys were doing.
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Hello all,
Further to this thread, I have ordered the joy of improv. Being a kind of beginner, I am wondering what's the best method to transcribe the lick of each lesson on the fretboard. Currently this is what I am doing (not sure it will work)
1. Try to figure if it comes from a major or minor scale; and its key
2. Try to find each note of the lick in the "pattern 1" of this scale
Could you please give me some advice ?
How do you procede (like a step by step method) for this exercice ?
Thanks in advance,
Laurent
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05-17-2010, 07:17 AM #20jeffstocksmusic Guest
Laurent,
I just got the book late last week and have only read through the beginning and the first lesson, but you won't need to trascribe the weekly 'licks', they are written out in standard notation. Each lick is included at some point in the 'tune' solo also.
If you are interested in what scale the lick derives, you could probably figure that out, but I suspect the author wouldn't want you to worry about it. Just a guess. In reading the intro, it looks like he want you to really internalize the sound and shape of the line and play it through all keys. The source scales don't seem as important.
The other Jeff may want to correct me since he has started the material, but that is my take.
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Yes, what the other Jeff said. :-)
Each lick is taken directly from the second song you will be playing in that lesson. The chords are written out for you on top of the licks, so that should give you a good idea what tonality you're dealing with. But I think the important thing is to just memorize it, and then learn to play it in all 12 keys. Your ear will tell you if it's a lick that goes over major or minor - although I suspect that some of the licks will be applicable in both situations.
I'm finishing up Lesson 2 - I still would like to give it a few more days before I move on, and I have to transcribe the solo to "The Last Time". I should be starting Lesson 3 later this week. So far, so good, and it's still enjoyable.
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Lesson 3 completed. This one took a little longer because I was out of town for almost a week.
Louis Armstrong solos:
https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B0O...OGM1ZGE5&hl=en
https://docs.google.com/fileview?id=...YmNkMzIz&hl=en
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Hi Jeff,
I also bought this book by your recommendation, and just starting on lesson 1. Thank you for your review. It seems like what I needed to get started in this area to build both on ear training as well as improvisation.
Believe it or not, it took me a day or two just to understand the instructions. I have realized this book is actually a good bit over my head, but the stretch will be good for me.
But one thing that is confusing the hell out of me is how do the authors want us guitarist to handle the whole concert tone vs. guitar tone musical notation?
Could you kindly help me clarify the following - I apologize if these questions sound elementary or silly:
1. For the solo patterns, it seems like there is no special instruction on whether to play it in concert tone, or move it up an octave. Or should it be practiced in both?
2. Is "voicing" just a jargon for "chord progression"? I assume these voicing are written in the bass clef to make it easier for keyboardists.
3. In the special instructions for playing the voicing on the guitar, it says some modifications will be necessary because some contain consecutive small intervals... why is that?
4. Again in the special instructions for the voicing, it says in the first paragraph to at least play the top three notes in concert pitch. Then in the next paragraph it says to write them out on octave higher in the treble cleff. Again, confused as to what they really want us to do here.
5. Another confusing part for me in the same paragraph: "Realizing the guitar already sounds in the bass clef for most of its range"... what are they trying to explain exactly?
Lastly, I noticed you have transcribed the solos of each lesson... perhaps that's just for extra credit?
In the book it says just to sing the solos, unless I have missed something.
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I don't have the book, but... You already know guitars play an octave below what's written -- an octave below what a piano would play, eh? So if you're reading music not written for guitar and what to play in the intended register, you need to play it an octave higher. But the book you have is supposed to be instrument-independent, not? In that case, I think there's an assumption that the musician will play in the registers that work for their instrument. Originally Posted by apak
My advice is to play patterns in as many different octaves as you can. Why not?
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I've altered some of the methodology to what makes more sense to me as a guitarist. I don't think it's as critical for us to play things in all 12 keys as it is for us to play in several different positions, since moving the same shape (position) to different keys is easy, but moving the same key to different shapes (positions) is not as easy. So what I do for the solo patterns is to play them in 5 different positions (according to the 5 Shapes I know from Jimmy Bruno - you could do the same thing with CAGED shapes, or whatever other method it is you use for positioning on the fretboard). Originally Posted by apak
"Voicing" is not the same as chord progression. "Voicing" means the particular choice and order of notes used to sound out an interval/triad/chord. For example, a C major seven chord is comprised of the notes C-E-G-B. If I spell it C-E-G-B that's one voicing (it happens to be a closed voicing and in root inversion). If I invert it and spell it E-G-B-C, that's another voicing. Or I could mix up the notes, and make it (like you typically see on the guitar) C-G-B-E. Or, I could opt for a "rootless voicing" and spell it E-G-B. Originally Posted by apak
The voicings are written in bass clef because the author is primarily a pianist. It does become a PITA when they have notes 4 ledger lines above the bass clef. But, you should also learn to read the bass clef at some point. A lot of times (esp in big bands) you're given a piano chart and expected to adapt that for the guitar on the spot.
Take Cm7 for example. C-Eb-G-Bb. You need 4 strings to play that. If you opt for a closed root position voicing, and you choose C on the 6th string (8th fret) for your root, then you need to play Eb on the 5th string (6th fret), G on the 4th string (5th fret) and Bb on the 3rd string (3rd fret). I don't know about you, but I can't finger that! So, you make adjustments. Either play a voicing that you know, or play the top 3 notes as written (the bass player will have the root anyway). Originally Posted by apak
To be honest, I'm not spending as much time on the chords as I am the other pats of the lessons. I have a decent vocabulary of chords already so I tend to just use those (mostly drop-2 and drop-3 voicings in various inversions). That said, I have gotten a couple of cool voicings out of the lessons. Don't forget that there are written voicings in the tunes as well - for the blues tune and for the standard. Pay particular attention to the voicings in the blues tunes. They're very hip and exploit economoy-of-motion very well (in other words, you dno't have to move your fingers around a bunch).
The lowest note on the guitar (low E, open string 6) is (I think) E2, which is well down into the lower part of the bass clef, even though it's written an octave higher for guitar. Take a look here: Guitar Lesson Five - Theory Part I Originally Posted by apak
Yep, extra credit. I do spend about a week or 10 days listening to just the one song for a total of maybe 45 minutes a day (I do this on my commute to and from work), and sing/scat along with it. Once I have it to where I can sing along about 90% accurately on the whole tune (if it's short), or at least the solo (if it's longer), I just write it out in Sibelius. I do find that getting the notes down on paper is educational in that I can see patterns more easily (look at the last one I did - Louis Armstrong uses this single-measure "dat-dat-dat-dat" phrase at least 10 times in that song! I've also begun to see just how much chord-tone arpeggiation he does on his solos. These are things that I don't necessarily cogitate when I'm singing along with the tune. Originally Posted by apak
Lastly, I noticed you have transcribed the solos of each lesson... perhaps that's just for extra credit? In the book it says just to sing the solos, unless I have missed something.
But again - the internalization of the song is the most important thing, not writing it out on paper.
Originally I was going to actually learn to play them all on the guitar as well, but that's just too time-prohibitive right now. :-)
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