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Is this/was this a valuable/worthwhile goal for any of you? If so, I wonder how you approached it, what results you achieved, whether it worked out like you had hoped, what worked and what didn't, etc.
In no particular order, here are some of the standard/established practices out there:
- Play Bird heads and bop heads
- Listen to the music (of course, but had to list it)
- Learn & master jazz language patterns for:
- II-V-I patterns, major and minor, short and long,
- Turnarounds,
- Single chord studies,
- Write and master your own patterns,
- Keep adding and mastering new material for your "war chest" over time
- Master "exercises" that lay the a foudation for the jazz language patterns (beyond the obvious scales and arpeggios - approach notes, enclosures other chromatic schemes).
- Develop the skill to extemporaneously "vary" all the material in #3 and #4, above. In other words - improvise on them
- Learn solo etudes on jazz blues, rhythm changes, classic bop tunes
- Write and master your own solo etudes on jazz blues, rhythm changes, classic bop tunes
- Learn solos from "the masters" (no, not Tiger Woods)
- Application - Improvise on jazz blues, rhythm changes, classic bop tunes
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04-22-2023 11:19 AM
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Barry Harris method classes, workbooks from Howard Rees
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I just copied stuff off records (and listened a lot), I had no structured approach really. Seems to have worked somehow. I even learned tunes and their chord progressions by ear, I didn’t even know there were fakebooks for that stuff back then. Over time I just kept playing and developing what I’d learned, applied to various tunes.
Should mention I started teaching myself in the early 1980s, so there was no internet, and I didn’t really know of any books. (I had been playing classical guitar and rock guitar for about 10 years by then, so had that foundation).
Reading your list, I guess as a result of what I was doing I did most of those things, but not in any particularly structured or deliberate way.
My focus was very much on bebop/hard bop stuff, probably still is!
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grahambop knows best.
The answers are in the recordings.
I'm a hobbyist still working with the great David Baker Bebop books.
Mainly for references, lines and exercises.
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haha, well I didn’t know any better at the time! Actually I did get one book, the Joe Pass chord book, simply because I didn’t really know the best way to play jazz chords on the guitar.
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Originally Posted by GuyBoden
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Originally Posted by pcjazz
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Originally Posted by Jazzjourney4Eva
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Originally Posted by ragman1
In recent threads Christian referenced spending several years on formulae (and also several years on Barry Harris stuff), and Reg mentioned briefly that he has "a notebook". Some refer to that as the players "personal war chest".
In any case, all of this adds up to a multi-year committment. I'm interested to hear what some serious/professional jazz guitarists have done to build a robust jazz language. There are several here who have done so, and they are from various backgrounds, both formal and informal. Clearly listing the content of the plan hopefully should make it less painful than quitting one's job and going under The Williamsburg Bridge for three years.
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I can't talk too much about that but I have got some humble experience.
At first I was just looking at the chords, one by one and work very vertically without connecting them very well.
Then I learnt how to play the bass, so step by step I began to connect them.
I understood that a chord didn't mean anything without a tune and a chord progression.
I began to apply what I learnt on the bass (I play the saxophone).
At first on the bass, I played only what it was written, then I added others, sometimes I simplified or I played substitution.
Be bop is the highest development about tonal jazz.
Each traditional chord progression has been developed with substitutes and extra chords.
Be bop blues, Be bop Blues For Alice (Swedish Blues ? Bird Blues ?), Rhythm Changes.
A lot of I VI II I and their substitution.
This is a thing I tried on the bass, I hope it helps, but the bass tells a lot of things of what I said.
There are two chords but I play more.
It sounds stupid but it helped me.
Tunes are important but everyone has to see be bop changes like something that can be simplified or complexified, but at the end it's the same.
How do you call this ? Superstructure?
In a lonely chord there is an inner progression, it depends of what comes before and after it.
And in a very complex progression a simple one is hidden.
I know you're going to say I'm telling craps but it's the way that be bop works.
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Originally Posted by Lionelsax
I don't know very much about jazz bass but I experimented with walking bass lines for my own jazz/blues backing tracks. Chromatics and voice led chord connections came up. That's certainly relevant to bebop.
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Originally Posted by Jazzjourney4Eva
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Originally Posted by pcjazz
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Originally Posted by Jazzjourney4Eva
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Originally Posted by Jazzjourney4Eva
Having said that, I only recently have finally come to appreciate the freedom of seeing the entire fingerboard as "one" position, if you know what I mean. But was it worth all the years of repetitive drills? Ask me again in another 5 years!
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Just speaking for myself, I didn’t find the Barry Harris stuff particularly relevant or appealing until I started transcribing Bird and Bud.
So at that point I was taking and applying language/licks from bebop heads and solos (ii v I stuff typically) which is a time honoured approach that works.
Barry can take you beyond playing vocabulary, but I think it was helpful to me to spend some time playing licks.
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Originally Posted by princeplanet
Positions are just there to teach a kind of fingering but that's all.
I learnt this when I began to play the bass more seriously !
I don't play good but I know my fretboard on the guitar.
Positions have to be forgotten when it's about music.
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I had already many years of playing other styles before getting into jazz, so language was a much bigger challenge for me than technique for example. By far I found transcribing the best tool, and listening to tons of albums. So many musicians overlook the latter, but you have to carefully listen to thousands, not hundreds of albums, and it will make a difference. I've seen people do one full solo transcription a week for two semesters and turn into great players.
I think transcribing alone can do the trick, but personally I needed to have the theoretical background as well, to intellectually understand what's going on (what's the thinking behind Bebop playing). I never studied the Barry Harris method, but studied with a bunch of people who I later discovered more or less outlined his method for me.
So for me it has been, learning from records, some theory, and endless noodling.. I still keep a list of short term goals I work on, say triads of the diminished scale, particular chord progressions, repertoire, etc..Last edited by Alter; 04-23-2023 at 11:34 AM.
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Originally Posted by Jazzjourney4Eva
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Actually, I focus mainly on listening to jazz records - but those without a guitar.
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Originally Posted by ragman1
And you, for what purpose do you publish your recordings?
Are you rehearsing material for your first album?
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Originally Posted by Alter
Consider the difference between these 2 examples which may illustrate my point:
laddy gaga one in a hundred - Google Search
Top 20 Unscripted Robin Williams Moments | Videos on WatchMojo.com
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I had a list like that. I decided I wanted an immersive education in bebop. I moved to Philly about 20 years ago and at that time the city was steeped in players from that era, who had played with the greats, who were still playing the jams every week sometimes two or three opportunities a week. These were the cats who made a contribution to the history (like Lee Smith, amazing bass player who's Christian McBride's dad) and a welcoming atmosphere.
At that time, I had never studied bebop from any method or book. That worked out well. Greatest lessons ever were whenever I'd say "I don't know this tune. I'll sit this one out." and the old cats would say "You know it, your ear knows." and I learned how it all goes together.
I can't tell you how very much I learned by being around players who accepted me. 'can't tell you how much more than book knowledge I learned. What was the primary element I found through that community? Joy. Playing and swinging is pure joy.
When I left Philly, I came to Boston, to a music school. Man, I learned more from being under the wings of the cats on the bandstand than I ever could have in all the classrooms I spent my time in.
Just to say learn well, study hard but find players who play. That's where you teach yourself how to become a player.
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Originally Posted by ragman1
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But it's not about you... something funny here. Anyway, your business, not mine.
Moffa Mithra
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