Singing while improvising

[ragman1]

I always sing what I'm playing, but internally.

Quite. When I'm playing I am singing. Instead of using the voice as an instrument, I'm using the guitar, that's all. It's the same process only externalised differently.

I think one problem is separating the internal from the external. If we see them them as separate processes then the issue arises how to bridge the gap... but we've created the gap. It's a holistic process, the whole thing is one thing, one movement. Then it just flows.

[kris]

I have my own observations about playing jazz solos.
When I record something, I try not to play long solos...
I will never play like that, like f.ex. Dexter Gordon playing blues, who played long solos and didn't bore the listener.
Dexter played a lot in jazz clubs and left a huge amount of recordings.
He was a giant.
I'm not some great jazz player.
I try to play a solo that speaks for a shorter distance.
Well, to play in this way, I also had to practice a lot and play several hundred jazz concerts.
What is important is the beginning of a solo, or rather a musical statement.
It is supposed to be a valuable musical statement and I am its severe critic.
When I listen to Ragman and hear the emphasis on the 'A' note over cm7 at the beginning of the solo...it distracts me.
I wouldn't "sing' or play like that...or I would do it any other way.

[kris]

Quite. When I'm playing I am singing. Instead of using the voice as an instrument, I'm using the guitar, that's all. It's the same process only externalised differently.

I think one problem is separating the internal from the external. If we see them them as separate processes then the issue arises how to bridge the gap... but we've created the gap. It's a holistic process, the whole thing is one thing, one movement. Then it just flows.

That's why I believe that singing solos of great musicians is so important when learning to play jazz.
Listening and analyzing also helps a lot.
Recently, I listen to at least 3 albums a day, if not more.
I listened to over 1000 cds in the last year.

[Christian Miller]

That's why I believe that singing solos of great musicians is so important when learning to play jazz.
Listening and analyzing also helps a lot.
Recently, I listen to at least 3 albums a day, if not more.
I listened to over 1000 cds in the last year.

Ah Kris, you don’t get it mate

If I listen to the music I supposedly love and learn from other musicians by singing their solos it will mess with my tremendous Creativity and Originality and I won’t be able to Express Myself in the form of noodly chord scale derived solos over medium tempo backing tracks

[kris]

Ah Kris, you don’t get it mate

If I listen to the music I supposedly love and learn from other musicians it will mess with my tremendous Creativity and Originality and I won’t be able to Express Myself.

Jazz isn’t about music! It’s about noodling around on the chord scales that I have learned from a book over a medium tempo backing track. I’ve been doing this for at least a decade without apparent sign of improvement or evolution but don’t you dare question my path!

But in my case, I'm more of a listener than a real player.
Charges the batteries.
ps.
I listened to about 50 cds of Dexter Gordon - brilliant training material.
Listening helps me develop an appropriate level of musical taste.At least that's what I'm original in... :-)

[Lionelsax]

I am a guitarist and the guitar solo is my priority. I will never be a vocalist and I don't want to be one.
To be a singer, I would have to learn it like professional singers do.
Singing like mine is just some kind of controlling tool and inspiring at the same time.
I do it silently.

So your voice is inspired by what your fingers play.
It's what they call muscle memory.
I understand it like this.
I was telling what's happening on the forum to my wife...
She said : "But you are all 8 years old kids ! Do what you want, you don't need to know what they think !"

[Christian Miller]

But in my case, I'm more of a listener than a real player.
Charges the batteries.
ps.
I listened to about 50 cds of Dexter Gordon - brilliant training material.

I prefer to listen to the iReal backing track. Way more swinging!

[kris]

I prefer to listen to the iReal backing track. Way more swinging!

ha ha....like old versions of Band in a box...midi toys

[kris]

So your voice is inspired by what your fingers play.
It's what they call muscle memory.
I understand it like this.
I was telling what's happening on the forum to my wife...
She said : "But you are all 8 years old kids ! Do what you want, you don't need to know what they think !"

Well, it's not quite like that...then I wouldn't sing...
Greet your wife.

My wife says the same thing...."that this forum is a waste of time and asks me when I'm going to play a concert?"

[Christian Miller]

ha ha....like old versions of Band in a box...midi toys

yes I learn my Bossa feel from a Casio keyboard

[ragman1]

My wife says the same thing...."that this forum is a waste of time and asks me when I'm going to play a concert?"

She's right!

[ragman1]

I forgot -

the emphasis on the 'A' note over cm7

It was Cm6.

Cm6 - % - % - C7b13
Fm9 - % - Cm6 - %
Dm11 - Db7b5 - Cm6 - G7#9

[ragman1]

These responses are better than the one I got from Lionel's wife. I wrote 'Blues For Lionel' a couple of years ago and she thought maybe it was because I was homosexual!

[Lionelsax]

Bunch of weirdos, this morning a bald man sang the blues for you, an angry bald man.

[kris]

I forgot -



It was Cm6.

Cm6 - % - % - C7b13
Fm9 - % - Cm6 - %
Dm11 - Db7b5 - Cm6 - G7#9

I play cm9 ...maybe it's a matter of taste.

[kris]

yes I learn my Bossa feel from a Casio keyboard

good for beginners

[ragman1]

Bunch of weirdos, this morning a bald man sang the blues for you, an angry bald man.

Mad, moi? Sorry, no!

Some problems with blues

[ragman1]

I play cm9 ...maybe it's a matter of taste.

You can't just superimpose what you would do! The chord was Cm6, hence the A. Sounds right to me. If it was Cm9 it would be D.

Of course it's a matter of taste, it always is. I like my floaty stuff, I enjoy it.

[Lionelsax]

Mad, moi? Sorry, no!

Some problems with blues

No !
I was talking about myself !

Well, I'll never know why people give advice about things they can't achieve themselves, over all on jazz forums.

Nevermind, Kris wanted me to play a blues, after drinking two coffees, I made this, it's just one take.
No rehearsal, it came like this.

This is the original !

For those who have no time to listen, this is the fast one (thanks audacity !).

For those who wonder what came first, guitar or voice, this is the slow one.

I can't play the blues, I can't sing, I know nothing about bebop, harmony, articulation, etc.
I already know it !

[grahambop]

Quite. When I'm playing I am singing. Instead of using the voice as an instrument, I'm using the guitar, that's all. It's the same process only externalised differently.

I think one problem is separating the internal from the external. If we see them them as separate processes then the issue arises how to bridge the gap... but we've created the gap. It's a holistic process, the whole thing is one thing, one movement. Then it just flows.

Interesting, your solos tend to be slow and fairly simple, does that mean your ‘internal’ musical ideas are never any faster or more complex than that?

[ragman1]

Interesting, your solos tend to be slow and fairly simple, does that mean your ‘internal’ musical ideas are never any faster or more complex than that?

It's a good question. Probably they're not. I prefer space to breathe, as it were. But, to be honest, I'm not sure the solos are that simple. They might look it because I'm fairly careful not to contradict the backing too much but there are a lot of outside notes in there, maybe more than it seems.

For example, over the Cm6 there were some Db's, and, over the Fm9, Db's and B naturals, and so on. Plus a mish-mash of melodic minors... and so forth. I don't actually remember now, I'd have to check. I invented the progression too, it's not copied from anywhere.

[ragman1]

No !
I was talking about myself !

OOOHHHH! Je suis vraiment désolé! Je vous demande pardon. Au moins etre chauve c'est indolore :-)

But what are you angry about?

[Christian Miller]

Bunch of weirdos, this j
morning a bald man sang the blues for you, an angry bald man.

not quite a haiku

[kris]

It's a good question. Probably they're not. I prefer space to breathe, as it were. But, to be honest, I'm not sure the solos are that simple. They might look it because I'm fairly careful not to contradict the backing too much but there are a lot of outside notes in there, maybe more than it seems.

For example, over the Cm6 there were some Db's, and, over the Fm9, Db's and B naturals, and so on. Plus a mish-mash of melodic minors... and so forth. I don't actually remember now, I'd have to check. I invented the progression too, it's not copied from anywhere.

This is quite a long solo.
No tension is built up in the construction of the whole.
Such a caravan ride on an even road without potholes.
What is there to interest the average listener in this recording?
I'm curious.

[kris]

Quick recording cm blues solo guitar plus 'singing".
My backing track is metronome...;




Box