How Well do you know your WORKSPACE?

[Reg]

Yea... I think I posted decades ago.... you need to know yourself. Who and What You are.

Then one can start to make choices as to how to approach what ever one chooses. As to what level one wants to achieve... with guitar, how accomplished is obviously personal. Personally I went through all this as a kid, made choices and adjusted some as time moved on.

And again if one takes the time to work out the material before applying to the guitar. It just doesn't take that long.
Part of that process involves playing what your able to...while developing the skills.

Still best of luck NSJ. Sounds very enjoyable to me.

[NSJ]

My earlier post comes off as anti-knowledge, which I'm not...so a bit of further explanation.

You've taken on a big task...the 8 string, to the best of my knowledge, has not been mapped like this for jazz, at least in a book you can buy on Amazon. Therefore, the only thing to do is to do it, as they say.

Which I think could be amazing, were it an organic experience...but you unfortunately come to this instrument from a scary place:

You already know how to play the guitar and you understand music.

Which means you know how to streamline the process...which I worry will lead to a lot of practice time becoming charts and graphs and the practical application might be pushed down the road.

Its kind of the difference between WRITING Chord Chemistry and taking that book, working with 3 ideas from it for a month, then going back, taking 3 more, etc.

I guess in short, just make sure you don't feel the need to write the book before you start using it.

Agreed. I love playing I play every day, I am not afraid to just pick it up and play. I always have a goal for that kind of improv: try to make sure it’s not noodling. Every other person I meet says, “you should be playing in a restaurant”. I take it to mean, “not bad as background music” or something.

[NSJ]

Yea... I think I posted decades ago.... you need to know yourself. Who and What You are.

Then one can start to make choices as to how to approach what ever one chooses. As to what level one wants to achieve... with guitar, how accomplished is obviously personal. Personally I went through all this as a kid, made choices and adjusted some as time moved on.

And again if one takes the time to work out the material before applying to the guitar. It just doesn't take that long.
Part of that process involves playing what your able to...while developing the skills.

Still best of luck NSJ. Sounds very enjoyable to me.

Yes I agree. I am taking the time now to methodically work things out in a systematic way. I went through each inch of the instrument to really find out about where all the various intervals are, string to string. I use a lot of that small knowledge a lot. Big things come from small bits. Intervals .

I am also using this transition to address my deficiencies in a comprehensive way. It’s true” once you can really map it out, the task is less daunting. Not just the fingerboard, but to be able to play as well with a hybrid pick and fingers approach as well as I can play fingers only. Even that is not easy.

[princeplanet]

Hmm, well, I have taken the time over the years to practice absolutely everything I learn in the 5 CAGED positions. I start with 5 inversions of every 4 note chord - yes 5! That means, for example, if I want to base all my devices around a chord shape for each of the 5 CAGED positions, then 4 inversions for 4 note chords is not enough - it leaves holes.
So I "cheat" by inserting a drop 3 shape in amongst the other 4 drop2 shapes, which completes the matrix. So I picture the shape for any chord anywhere on the neck, and all my scales, arps, devices, patterns and lines light up in each position.

I also practice moving through positions smoothly. I gotta say, it's a ton of work, and I'm not convinced it's worth the trouble. If I tried to teach someone what I know, I'd never suggest they learn this way because it's at the expense of playing for enjoyment! You need to be the sort of person that is happy to defer the "pay off" for years. Not too many people like that around these days. My real regret is that I didn't get this down while I was young - but that was never gonna happen - too many distractions, musical or other...

I often wonder if I should have just learned 2 main positions thoroughly, with the occasional excursions outside. Not with chords though, I definitely feel that you need to know all your inversions for everything, which doesn't take that long in comparison to all the other stuff I do. But I do like a challenge, so...

[NSJ]

I was thinking things through and decided to catalogue everything that involves cool movements and how to transition from one to another in the most seamless manner, leveraging my knowledge of where the intervals are.

This morning, I immediately thought of this great sounding transition:

6-1-3 OPEN voiced across 3 string sets (i.e, skipping a string each time, so the entire chord covers 5 strings): Two of the three resultant possibilities Can be easily linked and transitioned to drop 2 and 4 5163 form with 6th an 5th string roots.

It may sound pedantic, but I’m going to internalize this. It sounds great and it’s something I can do on the fly.

[mr. beaumont]

It sounds great and it’s something I can do on the fly. [/FONT][/COLOR]

Then it's worth it.

You focus on internalizing and using things in practical, playable situations, then you'll get somewhere.

[NSJ]

Then it's worth it.

You focus on internalizing and using things in practical, playable situations, then you'll get somewhere.

For sure, the last thing people should do is try to memorize a mountain of chord grips that they can’t use and don’t understand.

I want to edit my original idea. Since I typed it, I worked out two more transitions. Lots of possibilities from this one idea:

6-1-3 across 3 string sets: 3 resultants. (A). Can be easily linked to drop 2 and 4 5163 form with 6th an 5th string roots (B). Can be transitioned to drop 2 5136,, keeping the same tonic; or (C). to the V7 drop 2 (form 1537)

[NSJ]

And another one.

Three Note Dim triad (m3 to b5) to m6/M6 triad 2nd inversion) to Drop 2 m6 (3615) on inner 4 strings to (Full) drop 2 dim on inner 4 strings to 5-1-b3 spread triad to Cm6 Drop 3 Root position to 4 note dim chord with the leading tone in the soprano (strings DGBE) leading to 6th root spread triad (6-b3-R) To R-b3 on 8th and 1st strings (3 octave + m3).


Ex: B° and Cm6 (notes are low to high)
Ab-B-F ——-> G-C-Eb——>Eb-A-C-G——->D-Ab-B-F——->Eb-C-G——>C-A-Eb-G——->Ab-D-F-B—->A-Eb-C——->C-Eb
This is fun! I feel like I’m actually kind of arranging stuff, even if my goal is to get them down on the fingerboard cold.

[mr. beaumont]

For sure, the last thing people should do is try to memorize a mountain of chord grips that they can’t use and don’t understand.

Definitely-- and honestly that wasn't my worry for you, I know you wouldn't do that. I was concerned you could get mesmerized by possibility before hacking away at what's actually practical (Pass was big on not knowing MORE chords but knowing more ways to use USE what he did know)...so the "need to know" phrasing in your original post sounded to me like you were ready to mathematically work out everything before diving in to the using them part...

With the 8 string, there are obviously going to be a LOT more possibilities, particularly when you get into split string sets. So to me it's like, maybe figure out 5 things, master them, go back, lather, rinse, repeat...it'll be a long process, but you'll be making music the whole way.

[NSJ]

Definitely-- and honestly that wasn't my worry for you, I know you wouldn't do that. I was concerned you could get mesmerized by possibility before hacking away at what's actually practical (Pass was big on not knowing MORE chords but knowing more ways to use USE what he did know)...so the "need to know" phrasing in your original post sounded to me like you were ready to mathematically work out everything before diving in to the using them part...

With the 8 string, there are obviously going to be a LOT more possibilities, particularly when you get into split string sets. So to me it's like, maybe figure out 5 things, master them, go back, lather, rinse, repeat...it'll be a long process, but you'll be making music the whole way.

It’s all progressive assimilation and acclimation, through constant repetition of incremental bits of information that is not haphazardly chosen but explicitly worked out, as part of a larger framework. Repetition does not mean keep doing it until you can do it correctly; keep doing it til you never do it incorrectly. I.e, it’s part of you.
I have George v Eps Harmonic Mechanisms book, I feel like what I’m doing now i finding out little harmonic mechanisms that are tied to the big picture. The goal is to fully improvise something on the fly, that can freely interchange lines, dyads, triads, clusters, 4 note chords that can also change registers on the fly, that can demonstrate all three times of motion-oblique-paralllel-and, the real victory, contrary motion.

One thing I have discovered with the 8 string that is common with the 7 string: the lowest note, the low A, is not part of a string set in any meaningful way, other than the low E (hell we can include the A on the 5th string and create a power chord easily with a simple barre People associate power chords with hard rock; but hell, Count Basie used ‘em. the Low A string can be used with other strings to create small open voicings. The one I like a lot is the use with the High A, to create interval of two notes that is over 3 octaves in distance. Otherwise, the string sets are really strings 1-7, and the the low string, which is the same low string on the 7th string, is not really a part of it.

As you can see, I have thought a lot about this. But from a practical point of view.

[NSJ]

Explorations of the iv minor back door turnaround


- [ ] iv-#IV°-I. Note that the back door turnaround (bVII7)= iv-6: drop 2 and 4 (b3-6-5-1) from string six TO #IV° on inner 4 strings (note that I°=#IV°) TO drop 2 and 4 V7 (5173) to II° on top 4 strings with soprano on high A string to drop 2 and 4 I6 (5163) with tonic on high A string
- [ ] Movement of voices for above -Ab-D-C-F TO Eb-A-C-F# TO D-G-F-B TO B-F#-Ab-D TO G-C-A-E