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transition to the new scale
In fact, unless Christian can explain something I'm not seeing, I don't get it at all. No one is saying you've got to stop when there's a bar line and start again, that's absurd!
I pause between phrases, since most tunes are made of phrases. 'Bar lines' have absolutely nothing to do with it.
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02-11-2022 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by ragman1
Whatever the chords are doing, phrases often go over through the bar lines even in the beginning stuff I teach kids. One way to test how musical a kid is if they instinctively complete the phrase. Most don’t…. So I teach them to.
Harmony reinforces melody. A harmonic cadence like V-I or even V7alt-I is a based on a melodic cadence: 7-1 for instance or 2-1 (b2-1 for altered).
Ill dig out an example when I get a chance. Come to think of it this might make a good video.
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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Originally Posted by Babaluma
Start with basic traids. Use chromatic triad approaches to the target triad or use the nearest melodic minor triad to the triad you are on (ii,v) etc.
Start off by being crude about it and then find little notes that connect your minor ii triad, to the nearest medic minor, or relative melodic minor substitution for the 'V' chord and then land on your root triad, or a substitution for I (be it a 3,6 triad etc..). Which ever comes closest to the previous triad or V substitution.
Bop language is about a smooth transition between ideas/triads/scales/chords. Voice leading where possible.
Your bass doesn't have to be making all the changes with you. For example if the bass player plays a V and you play a b5 (flat ii) , you're both making a tritone sound. Where it can start to go wrong, is if you have another harmonic instrument that isn't following your harmonic substitutions. Pianist's are a total pain
If you find you're still not hearing the sound you want or you are clashing with the bass player, which can happen if you're trying to be clever, then start with simple chromatic approach triads to target triad/chords. I.e #ii - ii- #v - v. See how that goes but bare in mind you want to try and stay away from roots if possible as you're both playing them.
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Originally Posted by ragman1
So what follows for melody also follows for harmony. A good example might be the melody to Fly Me to the Moon which fairly obviously outlines the chords of the tune and connects each third on the downbeat with a stepwise note on the upbeat. Furthermore, you actually phrase into these downbeats notes, across the bar line*.
So that’s also how you practice changes playing, you connect the chord tones (or chord scales) by steps across the bar line in this way; leading previous chords into the next smoothly and logically.
That’s a simple example but the same logic equally applies to whatever altered harmony you want to use; connect by steps into chord tones in the next bar. It is also the way Giant Steps is laid out ; each V or ii V is a pickup to the I chords that all lie on the downbeats. It also works for any harmony you can imagine, functional or not.
one good exercise is simply to run scales through a tune and keep moving up in steps without changing direction.
This may be obvious to you, but a lot of students haven’t clocked this. Hal Galper wrote a book about it, Forward Motion.
* of course in jazz you can also push them onto the previous upbeat, which is kind of how it is in this song. Whoops.
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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Originally Posted by ragman1
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Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
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Originally Posted by Jonah
Turns out even Charlie Parker wasn't born with that ability. So maybe not that disappointing afterall.
*Jo Jones - Wikipedia
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Originally Posted by Jimmy Smith
All this is nothing new, it's part of improvisation. Obviously we don't stop just because it's the end of a chord (what?), it's got to flow. So, if someone's really not getting it, point them to transcriptions and/or recordings and show them - if they want instruction, that is.
Hereabouts, with the odd exception, it's preaching to the converted anyway.
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Originally Posted by Tal_175
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Simplest way I can think of.
Get a backing track, 90 bpm, Dm7 G7 Cmaj7, 4 beats each. Or, 8 if you like.
For Dm7 use only chord tones. Play quarters, maybe a few eighths.
For G7, play only Ab B Eb and Bb. Quarter note each.
For Cmaj7 play chord tones.
Rinse and repeat until the sound starts getting in your ears.
That's an Abmin(add 9) arpeggio over G7.
That's b9 3 #5 (or b13 if you prefer) and #9. All four of those notes are from G alt. The only altered note missing is a Db. You can try adding it. You can also play F and G, which will help anchor the ear to the underlying G7.
One of the tricks of making the alt scale sound good (as was said above, on a resolving dominant) is to sprinkle it in, not dump out the box all at once.
So, you can play a G7 lick and then insert a couple of notes from Abmadd9.
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I think you should play around with some lines that connect smoothly into the next chord and then things start to make sense. A common line from say a G7 to C might be B, Ab, G, F, E or 3, b2, 1, 7, 3 of the C chord.
Then you can change it up by adding in the b3 to resolve to the G, something like B, Bb, Ab, G.
The #5 and b5 are a bit trickier to work with and use them less.
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here's a little deeper dive. My earlier post tried to make it easier than this one.
Here's another approach.
Play (against a backing track) Dm7 Db13 (x43446) Cmaj7.
That's the sound of alt.
Try Dm7 Abmin(add9) Cmaj7.
Now a detour. ANY chord from Abmelmin will work in place of that G7 and give the "alt sound", more or less.
Per Jazz Theory by Mark Levine, you can pick any notes you want from the melodic minor scale and they will work. You'll like some more than others.
The usual chords derived for Abmelmin are constructed by starting with a note of the scale and picking out every other note.
Ab Bb B Db Eb F G.
So, the first one (every other note starting on Ab) is Ab B Eb G. That Abminmaj7. And you can use it instead of G7.
Next one is Bb Db F Ab.
Next up Levine uses a different one ... B Eb F Bb and calls it Bbsusb9. But if you like you can just use the stack of B Eb G Bb.
You can figure out the rest.
The point is, every time you strum one of these instead of G7 in the ii V I, you'll be cramming the alt sound into your brain.
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Crossing bar lines? This is how to do it
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Originally Posted by ragman1
This is true of both Raney’s lines but also the melody which is a classic pickup into the downbeat thing.
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And ascending sequences. Over the bar lines.
Where is Babaluma?
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
Lava it is .... the bar line is lava!!!
But now a little bit more serious.... a tiny, tiny tip from me for the beginner: If you don't really hear altered scale yet, be sure to avoid starting your phrase, your line, on the root, it's hard to make it sound good from there, you'll learn that later.
Start on the flat nine for example and try a diminished arpeggio.... you'll see, sorry hear!
As I said, only tiny tip but give it a try!
PS.: And try descending lines, it's easier to make them sound cool than ascending ones.
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
But, I don't know if that's accurate.
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Originally Posted by Babaluma
This is a substitution for G- C7 F- Bb7
Make yourself a backing track with the original chords just mentioned, but then play a line that clearly outlines the chromatic chords, and you have something superimposed. Or do it the other way round.
Or outline Parker Blues chords against a standard blues comping.
General tip:
Playing altered or superimposing different chords are both a kind of "playing against the grain" sort of a thing.
You need a playing technique that allows you to sound fluent and convincing, and you need confidence. You will acquire both with practice, but it takes time, be patient with yourself!
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Originally Posted by charlieparker
Here's a simple example I've found. See how the lines straddle bars. Which means the notes of each phrase have to outline more than one chord. What people are saying here is that it's a beginner's mistake to only apply one scale to each chord individually. Obviously, doing it that way, there's no real flow to the music. Crossing the lines gives motion to it and just sounds better.
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Originally Posted by ragman1
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Originally Posted by grahambop
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Originally Posted by Christian Miller
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Originally Posted by Tal_175
Thanks this is very helpful!
Charlie Garnett - Franken Tele
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