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I definitely won't master it in a week...but this deep dive into it has been great for my ears.
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10-17-2021 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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Originally Posted by ragman1
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I know. I found one too but didn't use it, it was too fast.
But I think there is an underlying swing to it, but very gentle.
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Originally Posted by ragman1
He says so in the comments, although it would have made more sense to mention it in the description.
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Aaagh! You're right! Sorry. It did sound just like Wayne, didn't it? Well, nice job then! Well done, Carlo!
It's very unclear. There's a link to another vid with John Coltrane all over it. Never mind, they're Italian, you know :-)
Thank you. Well spotted!
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The most challenging tune so far, in my opinion. Very hard to hear.
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Originally Posted by ragman1
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I don't know if there is any version of Iris recorded by a famous guitarist on CD.
does anyone know?
I don't remember any musician proposing to play Iris for real jam.
Perhaps it is too sad and too difficult or sad that it is so difficult.
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Originally Posted by wzpgsr
It’s also confusing on the record that during the solos, they mess about with the form, they make it 25 bars by repeating 8 bars at twice the harmonic rate (i.e. the same chords repeated twice as fast) then add an extra bar. I never noticed this until I read an analysis of the tune recently.
Might explain why the solos are kind of hard to follow in places, compared to the chord changes given in the fakebooks.
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Originally Posted by ragman1
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Originally Posted by wzpgsr
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There's only one real resolution, as it were. That's the Db7 - Cm (bars 11 -12). It goes Cm - % - Db7 - Cm. The Db7 is the tritone of G7, so it's a V-i.
The rest of the chords (as I see it) are basically stand-alone and have to be done one at a time. That's why I slowed it down so much and played it rubato. I think at one point I did play something a little swingy over 11 and 12 because... it's familiar.
Possibly a mad theorist could come up with smart ways to connect all the chords but I wouldn't bore myself trying. There's no real connection between Fm, E, Gb, Bb7, and so on. And I don't think there's meant to be.
Answer: don't think in terms of traditional connections and resolutions. Just do it one at a time because that's all you've got. I know that contradicts all the advice that's generally offered but there we are.
Then just swallow your CST pride... Big info dump coming up if you want it.
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Fm = Fm (aeolian or dorian, help yourself. I prefer the m6 sound with the natural D)
EM7#11 - GbM7#11 = B maj - Db maj. Or, much better, Ebm - Fm (like Bm over CM7#11, the lydian sound). Easy to play too.
Bb7+ = Eb mel m (Bb7 is V of Ebm)
Db7#11 = Ab mel m (lyd dom)
AbM7#5 = I just play C but F mel m contains the natural E note. C is easier.
Then the Cm bars. I prefer the m6 sound because it suits but C harm m is okay.
Db7#11 as before.
That Dbmb6 is odd. I just go for Dbm, myself. Simpler. Or a B maj scale.
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The chords are going by so, unlike most modal tunes, there's not really enough time to give any one scale/mode a workout. It's more a question of trying to join the dots as best one can.
There are always other options for the harmonies but these work well enough. I peeked at cheat sheets till I'd got the idea then just let loose. Ultimately not as scary as it looks.
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Originally Posted by ragman1
XX9896
you get an Ab minor triad with a 9. I’ve been doing some focused melodic minor practice after a lesson, and this seems like it *might* be an approach to hang my hat on.Last edited by wzpgsr; 10-17-2021 at 08:52 PM.
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But its an Abmaj7#5...
Which is just C/Ab
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Originally Posted by wzpgsr
AbM7#11
(4x555x)
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Ha! That’s what happens when the knucklehead tries to get theoretical. I have removed my bad analysis and enrolled in a reading comprehension course.
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Originally Posted by John A.
My hat is off to you. Me vs. I. The last frontier of civilized grammar!
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I think someone asked if there were any professional recordings by guitarists about. I couldn't find any on YouTube but there was one on Spotify by Menconi. I've posted it myself on YT.
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Originally Posted by ragman1
Anyway, on to the musical discussion where I have a great deal to say ... not. My approach was to watch the thirds (mostly avoid them) and fifths (mostly alter them), not worry about the other note choices, and do focus on motif, phrasing, dynamics, and texture. I probably got it mostly wrong, but I wasn't in the mood to go through a detailed analysis and plan.
On the Miles version, that's how the solos feel like they were conceived to me (i.e., more intuitive than analytic). I did do a few passes where I was more explicitly arpeggiating the changes and playing chords, but that sounded exercises, so decided to kind of turn off my brain and blow.Last edited by John A.; 10-18-2021 at 08:25 AM.
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Originally Posted by kris
David Liebman is a jazz master.
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Originally Posted by John A.
That's the second big mistake I've made on this thread. Unusual. I blame it on trying to work out Iris too much. If I can't get simple grammar right then god knows what else I'm getting wrong.
Anyway, on to the musical discussion where I have a great deal to say ... not. My approach was to watch the thirds (mostly avoid them) and fifths (mostly alter them), not worry about the other note choices, and do focus on motif, phrasing, dynamics, and texture. I probably got it mostly wrong, but I wasn't in the mood to go through a detailed analysis and plan
Sounds okay to me (but check me, you never know!).
On the Miles version, that's how the solos feel like they were conceived to me (i.e., more intuitive than analytic). I did do a few passes where I was more explicitly arpeggiating the changes and playing chords, but that sounded exercises, so decided to kind of turn off my brain and blow.
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Originally Posted by ragman1
It's great that you posted this.
Thanks.
I can hear in this performance the great technical skill of the guitarist and the whole band.
I am so close to the version of Shorter from the M.Davis ESP album that I have the impression that Iris was written by Shorter for Shorter.
If you could find one more guitar version for comparison, that would be great.
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Originally Posted by kris
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
I love songs with one or two or three chords.
I'm kidding of course, but there is something to it.
KA PAF info please
Today, 11:52 AM in Guitar, Amps & Gizmos