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  1. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by PMB
    Tal plays a typically wild solo on All of Me. I love the spontaneity of his playing and way he gets himself out of corners. On the other hand, while it's 'in time' that doesn't necessary constitute an impressive time feel. They're related but different phenomena in my opinion. I don't hear much 'forward motion' in either that solo or in Warren's for all of its incredibly precise velocity.

    Regarding the latter's clip, it's certainly a feat to handle sixteenth-notes at that tempo so deftly but there's a sameness of articulation and dynamic ('jackhammer'?) that's less apparent in the opening eighth-note section. To come back to my earlier point, the articulation in that first section is the reverse of what you suggested earlier - a slight accent on the '1' with a stronger attack on beat 3, the back end of the bar. The line itself leads itself to those accents with the highest notes of each bar appearing on beat 3.

    As for Billy Bean, the clips you referenced were from the '80s. He still sounds great, despite being an alcoholic for years and barely touching the guitar. Even Bean's early studio recordings often don't show him in full flight. For those, take a listen to the late '50s bootleg recordings with John Pisano and various other rehearsal sessions. Here are a couple of examples:

    "Airegin"
    "Have You Met Miss Jones" (Billy's solo at 3'00"):
    ...and one from his official album with John Pisano, "Makin' It" (Billy takes the first solo):
    I'd be glad to discuss all these things further, rpjazzguitar but maybe via message or a new thread as I feel we're starting to hijack Lawson's video journal.
    I am fascinated by this discussion and don’t consider the thread hi-jacked at all.


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    The Jazz Guitar Chord Dictionary
     
  3. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by PMB
    (e.g. Trinity recorded with my friend and near neighbour, pianist Mike Nock) find him rushing badly..
    to be fair, bass and piano pretty much murder tal on that record.

  4. #28

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    My god Billy Bean sounds sick on those recordings

  5. #29

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    Interesting to read the comments on those Billy Bean Youtube videos (I honestly hadn't come across them before a search to post them here). A number mention his incredible time feel with one even dubbing him, quite unjustly, "a perfect Tal Farlow". That comment appears on the Airegin video posted by French jazz guitarist, Romain Pilon. Now there's a guy with an impeccable time feel:
    Funnily enough, I visited Romain at his home in Paris some years ago and the first thing I noticed when entering his studio was a copy of The Swinging Guitar of Tal Farlow. I had just been to Paris Jazz Corner that morning and by pure chance, picked up the second printed copy (002 of a limited run) of Tal Farlow: A Life in Jazz Guitar!
    Last edited by PMB; 07-27-2021 at 08:35 AM.

  6. #30

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    Another fave Billy Bean clip before I retire for the night:

  7. #31

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    Quote Originally Posted by djg
    to be fair, bass and piano pretty much murder tal on that record.
    Yes, a strange meeting with a bit of a back story that I won't go into here.

  8. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by PMB
    Tal plays a typically wild solo on All of Me. I love the spontaneity of his playing and way he gets himself out of corners. On the other hand, while it's 'in time' that doesn't necessary constitute an impressive time feel. They're related but different phenomena in my opinion. I don't hear much 'forward motion' in either that solo or in Warren's for all of its incredibly precise velocity.

    Regarding the latter's clip, it's certainly a feat to handle sixteenth-notes at that tempo so deftly but there's a sameness of articulation and dynamic ('jackhammer'?) that's less apparent in the opening eighth-note section. To come back to my earlier point, the articulation in that first section is the reverse of what you suggested earlier - a slight accent on the '1' with a stronger attack on beat 3, the back end of the bar. The line itself leads itself to those accents with the highest notes of each bar appearing on beat 3.

    As for Billy Bean, the clips you referenced were from the '80s. He still sounds great, despite being an alcoholic for years and barely touching the guitar. Even Bean's early studio recordings often don't show him in full flight. For those, take a listen to the late '50s bootleg recordings with John Pisano and various other rehearsal sessions. Here are a couple of examples:

    "Airegin"
    "Have You Met Miss Jones" (Billy's solo at 3'00"):
    ...and one from his official album with John Pisano, "Makin' It" (Billy takes the first solo):
    I'd be glad to discuss all these things further, rpjazzguitar but maybe via message or a new thread as I feel we're starting to hijack Lawson's video journal.
    I guess there's more than one way to relate to this subject. I think Tal's time feel on All of Me is great. You hear it as less than impressive. I'm not sure what there is to discuss about that.

    As far as Warren's forward motion or lack thereof, it led me to question whether I understand the concept. I knew that Hal Galper taught it, so I listened to some of his stuff. The things I found weren't bop. I didn't hear anything special that might be described as forward motion. I then read some articles about it to refresh my memory.

    One of the points is about grouping. Galper suggests that starting a phrase on the 1 is not preferred. He gives examples of starting an eighth later and having the fourth note of your eighth note phrase be on a downbeat. I'm aware this is an oversimplification -- he wrote a book on it and I'm writing a post.

    But, when I listen to players I like, they often start right on the 1, or an eighth before it while still accenting the 1. Tal did it and I think he sounded terrific. I don't hear any problem with his time feel. I think you're right that some accent 3 more than 1 - it reminds me of samba, where the accent is on 3, if you're thinking in 4/4. In Bach in Blue, the melody (when the 8ths kick in) accents 1.

    What Galper is describing is more than accenting something other than 1. He's also describing constructing melodies with contours that land on 1 or otherwise project forward. In my original comment I was suggesting an avenue toward improvement in basic time feel with a straightforward pattern of accents. I wasn't addressing how to shape a melodic phrase. I'm inclined to agree with Galper there, to the extent that he views it as a perceptual problem. Way beyond this post.

    Good discussion.
    Last edited by rpjazzguitar; 07-27-2021 at 05:20 PM.

  9. #33

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    I guess there's more than one way to relate to this subject. I think Tal's time feel on All of Me is great. You hear it as less than impressive. I'm not sure what there is to discuss about that.

    As far as Warren's forward motion or lack thereof, it led me to question whether I understand the concept. I knew that Hal Galper taught it, so I listened to some of his stuff. The things I found weren't bop. I didn't hear anything special that might be described as forward motion. I then read some articles about it to refresh my memory.

    One of the points is about grouping. Galper suggests that starting a phrase on the 1 is not preferred. He gives examples of starting an eighth later and having the fourth note of your eighth note phrase be on a downbeat. I'm aware this is an oversimplification -- he wrote a book on it and I'm writing a post.

    But, when I listen to players I like, they often start right on the 1, or an eighth before it while still accenting the 1. Tal did it and I think he sounded terrific. I don't any problem with his time feel. I think you're right that some accent 3 more than 1 - it reminds me of samba, where the accent is on 3, if you're thinking in 4/4. In Bach in Blue, the melody (when the 8ths kick in) accents 1.

    What Galper is describing is more than accenting something other than 1. He's also describing constructing melodies with contours that land on 1 or otherwise project forward. In my original comment I was suggesting an avenue toward improvement in basic time feel with a straightforward pattern of accents. I wasn't addressing how to shape a melodic phrase. I'm inclined to agree with Galper there, to the extent that he views it as a perceptual problem. Way beyond this post.

    Good discussion.
    it’s been a while since I read this book so I’m probably mingling it with other stuff, but pretty much all Western music phrases over the bar line. Play strictly bars 1 - 4 of a simple melody like Happy Birthday and you’ll come out on the penultimate note of a phrase. This is also true of baroque music etc.

    where jazz (and other African diaspora musics like Samba and so on) differs is that while Western Music would tend to stress that resolving beat, often we choose to accent the tension side, the dissonant side or so called ‘weak side’ - this is the second half of the bar, 2 and 4 or the upbeats (it’s kind of like Russian dolls.)

    So when I was briefly studying Renaissance lute, my teacher used to tell me off for accenting rhe upbeats haha. In that music the stress is strong weak, strong weak. In jazz this can be reversed.

    Again I recall Hal covering this in the book.
    Last edited by Christian Miller; 07-27-2021 at 04:36 PM.

  10. #34

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    I'm going to try to put into words something that would be better in sound. Of course, oversimplified.

    It's similar to counting:

    ONE e and uh - TWO e and uh

    vs.

    one E and uh - two E and uh

    To my ear, the first one tends to sound more propulsive, but I see how someone might come to the opposite conclusion.

    When I listen to players I like, I hear *phrasing* not details, and I find it hard to reduce to this level of analysis.

    I studied with Warren for several years. Perhaps that's one reason I tend to hear things his way.

    I also studied with Carl Barry (even earlier). Carl was close to Chuck Wayne and played what I thought of as that style. I heard a lot of it. Usually two guitars with no bass or drums -- and the time seemed to float.

    Back to Tal and Red Norvo. The groove caused my wife to exclaim just now, "that moves doesn't it?". Yes, it does. And Red uses both types of accents.

    Overall, I think Galper is right, but he's not the only one who is right and, as usual, there isn't one correct way to play music.

  11. #35

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    So it’s more like the difference between saying

    1-ee-and-a 2-e-and-a 3
    and

    1, ee-and-a-2, ee-and-a-3

    At least how I understood it

    Its not necessarily about always accenting the upbeat, but it is about making sure you connect the phrase into the following beat. You can accent on the beat or on the upbeat, or not at all (clave accents work well.)

    In fact now I think about it, Hal makes a point of the importance of evenness; if you play habitual accents on the beat it can feel like you are accenting upbeats when you play them even, until you get used to them. Accentuation is not as important as evenness I guess.

    As I say downbeat accentuation in jazz guitarists I think is an artefact of the way we chunk things together on the instrument.

    So the way I’ve worked out fingerings etc to follow this is pretty obvious for things like enclosures for instance. A good way to connect to the next downbeat is to slur. This is not uncommon among jazz guitarists…

  12. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    As far as Warren's forward motion or lack thereof, it led me to question whether I understand the concept. I knew that Hal Galper taught it, so I listened to some of his stuff. The things I found weren't bop. I didn't hear anything special that might be described as forward motion. I then read some articles about it to refresh my memory.
    There are some illuminating points in Hal Galper's book but I actually think it's badly in need of a text and graphics editor. As far as his own playing is concerned, my introduction to Hal's playing was as a guest on John Scofield's Rough House. Great album! Around the same period, I heard him on an Aebersold backing track for I Love You. He rushes terribly and I couldn't reconcile the two recordings making me think that a certain sniffing substance may have been shared at the session! Either way, I've heard Galper on plenty of sessions since and caught him at Smalls with Jerry Bergonzi and he sounded absolutely fine.

  13. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    So it’s more like the difference between saying

    1-ee-and-a 2-e-and-a 3
    and

    1, ee-and-a-2, ee-and-a-3

    At least how I understood it

    Its not necessarily about always accenting the upbeat, but it is about making sure you connect the phrase into the following beat. You can accent on the beat or on the upbeat, or not at all (clave accents work well.)

    In fact now I think about it, Hal makes a point of the importance of evenness; if you play habitual accents on the beat it can feel like you are accenting upbeats when you play them even, until you get used to them. Accentuation is not as important as evenness I guess.

    As I say downbeat accentuation in jazz guitarists I think is an artefact of the way we chunk things together on the instrument.

    So the way I’ve worked out fingerings etc to follow this is pretty obvious for things like enclosures for instance. A good way to connect to the next downbeat is to slur. This is not uncommon among jazz guitarists…
    1 - ee and uh 2 is a good way to express it. "Tent, rented a tent, rented a tent" etc seems similar to me. It also sounds like a quarter note followed by a near-triplet. It's a triplet as the tempo goes to infinity. It's eighths as the tempo goes to zero.

    When I try to get a groove going in my mind, I gravitate towards the accents on one and three. It feels aggressive and propulsive. I have more trouble the other way. I hope that's a feature and not a bug.

    As far as phrasing, I vaguely understand the usual counsel, but I've converted to a different philosophy. I'm trying to scat sing (silently) and play the result. When I get to the point where I can reliably do that, I'll think about working on trying to scat sing better lines. My approach works well at moderate or slow tempi and not so good at rapid tempi. I like players who do it the first way, but, I can't hear it that way.

    As an aside, I have been unable to figure out exactly what you are referring to in your posting about upbeat accents. Not a criticism. I have been unable to understand clearly stated things on occasion.

  14. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    1 - ee and uh 2 is a good way to express it. "Tent, rented a tent, rented a tent" etc seems similar to me. It also sounds like a quarter note followed by a near-triplet. It's a triplet as the tempo goes to infinity. It's eighths as the tempo goes to zero.

    When I try to get a groove going in my mind, I gravitate towards the accents on one and three. It feels aggressive and propulsive. I have more trouble the other way. I hope that's a feature and not a bug.

    As far as phrasing, I vaguely understand the usual counsel, but I've converted to a different philosophy. I'm trying to scat sing (silently) and play the result. When I get to the point where I can reliably do that, I'll think about working on trying to scat sing better lines. My approach works well at moderate or slow tempi and not so good at rapid tempi. I like players who do it the first way, but, I can't hear it that way.

    As an aside, I have been unable to figure out exactly what you are referring to in your posting about upbeat accents. Not a criticism. I have been unable to understand clearly stated things on occasion.
    Accenting the ands in an 8th note line?

  15. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christian Miller
    Accenting the ands in an 8th note line?
    Sounds simple when you say it that way.

    You've been discussing details -- and it's the detail that has been elusive.

  16. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    So now I have this thing up to a hair faster than 150 bpm and I feel more confident with the actual notes. This time I played the ES165 Herb Ellis and the Fender Princeton Reverb Re-issue, using the Bugera PS1 Power Soak for a direct line into the box for recording. I think this has a somewhat more "raw" feel as a result of the recording process.

    A couple clams, of course (this is me, guys). But still, I think I'm getting a better feel on this, but maybe I'm just so used to hearing myself I think it's better than it is.

    Observations and advice are welcome and I do try to take seriously your input, despite pushing back a little from time to time.

    Really nice! Lots of clear demonstrable progress, and in a very short amount of time. We’re talking weeks. Kudos Lawson.

    I hope some other folks can see what some dedicated study of Joe Pass can do for a player. Wes too (of course). You can spend a few years with those two, then either keep going with it, or branch out to more “modern” stuff. Either way you’ll have a hell of a foundation. All IMO of course.

  17. #41

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    This discussion on articulation ad forward motion has been very substantive and you guys have brought a ton of experience and expertise to the discussion.

    So I have a favor to ask, possibly a large one, and I get it if you just don't have time or interest. But it would help me a lot if each of you would record a clip of the first 8 bars of this solo (notation posted below) using the ideas for phrasing, articulation, motion, etc. that you've explained. These things are so often best seen in actual playing, and by everyone using the same little snippet of music, it's easier to hear similarities and differences.

    Selfishly, it also gives me some serious pro insights into my little project.

    here is the notation for the first 8 measures if you don't have the book. I think posting this is a reasonable example of "fair use" so I don't think I'm violating copyright--I hope not, anyhow.

    Thanks again to you all for you very thoughtful, serious, and helpful discussion. I hope it continues, and I can keep on supplying really bad clips to inspire your teacherly urges!
    Joe Pass Guitar Style Rhythm Changes Solo #2-jpgs-rc2-a1-jpg

  18. #42

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    This discussion on articulation ad forward motion has been very substantive and you guys have brought a ton of experience and expertise to the discussion.

    So I have a favor to ask, possibly a large one, and I get it if you just don't have time or interest. But it would help me a lot if each of you would record a clip of the first 8 bars of this solo (notation posted below) using the ideas for phrasing, articulation, motion, etc. that you've explained. These things are so often best seen in actual playing, and by everyone using the same little snippet of music, it's easier to hear similarities and differences.

    Selfishly, it also gives me some serious pro insights into my little project.

    here is the notation for the first 8 measures if you don't have the book. I think posting this is a reasonable example of "fair use" so I don't think I'm violating copyright--I hope not, anyhow.

    Thanks again to you all for you very thoughtful, serious, and helpful discussion. I hope it continues, and I can keep on supplying really bad clips to inspire your teacherly urges!
    Joe Pass Guitar Style Rhythm Changes Solo #2-jpgs-rc2-a1-jpg
    Sure, Lawson, a great idea but it'll have to wait until tomorrow. I'm teaching from 8:30am-6:00pm today so that should more than satisfy my teacherly urges!

  19. #43

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    Quote Originally Posted by PMB
    Sure, Lawson, a great idea but it'll have to wait until tomorrow. I'm teaching from 8:30am-6:00pm today so that should more than satisfy my teacherly urges!
    Whoa that's a demanding schedule! Is it music teaching or some other subject(s)?

    I look forward to anything you can share. Your last little clip actually spurred to keep working on this.

  20. #44

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    I don't know if this is what you meant, but it's something <g>.


    What I'm trying to say about bars 2 and 3 is that the first phrase seems to begin on 1 (for 4 notes) and the next phrase begins on 3 for another 4 notes. I think that's implied by the contour (ups and downs in pitch) of the line itself. I suppose that you can parse it wherever you like, but that's the way it strikes my ear.
    Last edited by rpjazzguitar; 07-28-2021 at 11:52 PM.

  21. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    Whoa that's a demanding schedule! Is it music teaching or some other subject(s)?

    I look forward to anything you can share. Your last little clip actually spurred to keep working on this.
    All guitar students on Zoom (we're in lockdown), over 30 each week! I also a direct a big band and a couple of ensembles at one of my teaching institutions but that's out for the moment. There are currently no gigs here and no travel so I have a little more time than usual and don't mind putting something together.

  22. #46

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    I don't know if this is what you meant, but it's something <g>.


    What I'm trying to say about bars 2 and 3 is that the first phrase seems to begin on 1 (for 4 notes) and the next phrase begins on 3 for another 4 notes. I think that's implied by the contour (ups and downs in pitch) of the line itself. I suppose that you can parse it wherever you like, but that's the way it strikes my ear.
    That was really, really fun to watch for me. YES, the first two bars especially don't "lay well" on the guitar. When I make clips, I nearly always flub the first two bars when i'm moving to a quicker tempo. I'm glad of that, because they move me out of my finger-patterns and create some new ones.

    I'm feeling the lines pretty much like you do. As I'm moving past 150 bpm on it, I find I'm evening out the 8ths, of necessity, and since at those tempos I start patting just on 1 and 3, I guess I emphasize those. I'm also slurring into a good many notes and need to see if I'm slurring into downbeats.

    I also keep thinking about Joe Pass. He wrote the solo, and when I play it, I try to imagine how he'd play it. On the first solo, I have him playing it, but not the second.

    Thanks again for talking and playing through the lines. that was above and beyond, and you validated a lot of my general impressions about how to approach this.

  23. #47

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    So i have nudged my tempo up to 160 bpm and noticing several things. For me, 160 is the "treeline" of tempos. Hiking in the high country, the treeline is the point where a lot of people just can't go higher. The air is different, you breathe differently, the approach to the trail begins to change as you transition to high-altitude.

    For me, at 160 lots of things I could do at lower tempos just drop away. My 8th notes get more even, I find I do more straight alternate picking, I slur a bit differently, and some triplet figures just have to be dropped. If I can master something at 160-170, I find the movement up to 200 just requires time and effort, but the shift through 160 involves changes in how I play.

    The first 2 bars always trip me up. Starting on 2 feels off-kilter, and the notes aren't in the places I want them to be in. But that's good, it breaks up my muscle-habits.

    Your reflections, and even your playing some of the phrases in the solo to show me a better or different approach, is welcome.


  24. #48

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    Quote Originally Posted by lawson-stone
    So i have nudged my tempo up to 160 bpm and noticing several things. For me, 160 is the "treeline" of tempos. Hiking in the high country, the treeline is the point where a lot of people just can't go higher. The air is different, you breathe differently, the approach to the trail begins to change as you transition to high-altitude.

    For me, at 160 lots of things I could do at lower tempos just drop away. My 8th notes get more even, I find I do more straight alternate picking, I slur a bit differently, and some triplet figures just have to be dropped. If I can master something at 160-170, I find the movement up to 200 just requires time and effort, but the shift through 160 involves changes in how I play.

    The first 2 bars always trip me up. Starting on 2 feels off-kilter, and the notes aren't in the places I want them to be in. But that's good, it breaks up my muscle-habits.

    Your reflections, and even your playing some of the phrases in the solo to show me a better or different approach, is welcome.

    Glad that was of some value. Your most recent clip sounds like music!

    I still think it would be worth your while to play it in even 8ths instead of the swung eighths you're using.

    This is taste and perception, I think, not right vs. wrong. Which way makes you want to move the most?

    To my ear, even eighths sound better and that's what I hear most players use when they're playing a line of eighths. Particularly, as you noted, as the tempo rises.

    Aside: I can recall a time when I tended to hear fast lines in triplets. I think that was partially because it's easier to play 3 notes than 4 in the same space. Also because I learned Chuck Wayne's three notes per string early on. That made it easy to fall into thinking 3 notes at a time. My teacher emphasized the importance of making up and down strokes sound the same, but I think it took me years to fully appreciate that point. When I studied with Warren, I had to retrain my brain to want to hear 4 notes, not 3, per beat. The earlier approach remains a dormant infection, like shingles, which acts up under stress.

    Good feel on eighths is, I think, dependent on tempo. We write eighths, or sometimes dotted eighth-sixteenth, but what we play is somewhere between what is written and a triplet with the first two notes tied. Where, exactly, 5he notes are played depends on the player, the feel of the tune and, importantly, the tempo. At bop speeds they tend towards being even. At medium tempo they're more uneven.

    In samba, btw, the analogue is sixteenth-eighth-sixteenth. It is also played "between the cracks" depending on tempo.

    In each case, samba and swing, the jazz feel can't be written exactly. We have no option in standard notation for writing a tempo dependent rhythmic phrase.

    Last point.

    I woke up this morning wishing I had include a quick sung pair of passages in my clip.

    TA da da da, Ta da da da

    vs.

    t Da da da, t Da da da. "t" is stacatto.

    I think this boils down one of the things Galper talks about. I think it can work both ways, but it depends on the contour of the line.
    For this Joe Pass thing, I still like the first one. I hear this phrasing in that Tal clip (whatever problems he may, or may not, have had with his time, they weren't on display in that clip), in everything Warren Nunes played, and in Joe's playing, at times. Billy Bean phrased differently -- more like CC to my ear. Swing and syncopation. Nice player - glad to be introduced to his work.

    I'm thinking about going back and watching Galper's lessons. I think that would be desirable, but we have to choose. There are so many great things to learn that it's easy to be distracted. I've already got an overwhelming number of things to work on.

  25. #49

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    Quote Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
    Glad that was of some value. Your most recent clip sounds like music!

    I still think it would be worth your while to play it in even 8ths instead of the swung eighths you're using.

    This is taste and perception, I think, not right vs. wrong. Which way makes you want to move the most?

    To my ear, even eighths sound better and that's what I hear most players use when they're playing a line of eighths. Particularly, as you noted, as the tempo rises.

    Aside: I can recall a time when I tended to hear fast lines in triplets. I think that was partially because it's easier to play 3 notes than 4 in the same space. Also because I learned Chuck Wayne's three notes per string early on. That made it easy to fall into thinking 3 notes at a time. My teacher emphasized the importance of making up and down strokes sound the same, but I think it took me years to fully appreciate that point. When I studied with Warren, I had to retrain my brain to want to hear 4 notes, not 3, per beat. The earlier approach remains a dormant infection, like shingles, which acts up under stress.

    Good feel on eighths is, I think, dependent on tempo. We write eighths, or sometimes dotted eighth-sixteenth, but what we play is somewhere between what is written and a triplet with the first two notes tied. Where, exactly, 5he notes are played depends on the player, the feel of the tune and, importantly, the tempo. At bop speeds they tend towards being even. At medium tempo they're more uneven.

    In samba, btw, the analogue is sixteenth-eighth-sixteenth. It is also played "between the cracks" depending on tempo.

    In each case, samba and swing, the jazz feel can't be written exactly. We have no option in standard notation for writing a tempo dependent rhythmic phrase.

    Last point.

    I woke up this morning wishing I had include a quick sung pair of passages in my clip.

    TA da da da, Ta da da da

    vs.

    t Da da da, t Da da da. "t" is stacatto.

    I think this boils down one of the things Galper talks about. I think it can work both ways, but it depends on the contour of the line.
    For this Joe Pass thing, I still like the first one. I hear this phrasing in that Tal clip (whatever problems he may, or may not, have had with his time, they weren't on display in that clip), in everything Warren Nunes played, and in Joe's playing, at times. Billy Bean phrased differently -- more like CC to my ear. Swing and syncopation. Nice player - glad to be introduced to his work.

    I'm thinking about going back and watching Galper's lessons. I think that would be desirable, but we have to choose. There are so many great things to learn that it's easy to be distracted. I've already got an overwhelming number of things to work on.
    I might give the even-8ths a try esp. since the tempo is nudging me that way anyhow. I think actually the swing feel is coming from my slurring just to keep up with the tempo.

  26. #50

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    This video of tarantella presents one extreme. Uses what sounds like triplets with the first two notes tied. It's classic, but it's not the rhythm of modern jazz. If you play the notes as even eighths, it sucks as tarantella.



    Then, in Sonny Stitt's playing of Scrapple, you can hear some swing feel in the melody but in the solo he gets more even. Not fully even, to my ear, but closer.



    In this one, Stan Getz is pretty even. It also makes a point that you don't have to play a zillion notes, even when it's a bop tune.