How does one "tell a story" with improvisation?

[Gramps]

I'm not into the book learning vs playing by ear argument. You'll progress further by using all the tools available to you.

Great motifs can be created without knowing theory and by those who know theory. Lame motifs can be created by people without knowing theory and by those who know theory.

[qsblues]

I'm not into the book learning vs playing by ear argument. You'll progress further by using all the tools available to you.

Great motifs can be created without knowing theory and by those who know theory. Lame motifs can be created by people without knowing theory and by those who know theory.

Word!

Django, Wes, Charlie Christian and all the others are the beacons which we need to follow!

I hope that everyone trips the wire betwixt the means of standard of creation!

[bluesman39]

You need to learn your changes, but there are no "wrong" notes. Key centers can get boring w/ noodling, but only if you use them that way. Meditate for a clear mind and energy into your playing. Listen to the group, esp. rhythm section. Play what you feel. Oh, and keep it simple!! Less is more, look at Miles.

[JoeHeider]

A cool thing my professor has brought up in masterclass before is taking the melody and circling important notes that are in the melody, notes that are chord tones or consonant extensions. whether you start focusing on these notes or end you solo focused on these notes its a pretty solid concept to try and apply to try and get that less is more approach.

[Shadow of the Sun]

Joe, that seems a lot like Ed Byrne's Linear Jazz Improvisation approach.

[JoeHeider]

I'm not familiar with it. Perhaps my professor for master class, Mark Dziuba is familiar with the concept in the book or from the man himself.

[franamico]

I'm in a small jazz ensemble at my local community college. Our instructor had a 19 year old tenor sax player come in yesterday and play for those of us who came for the optional Friday meeting to improve our playing. The kid was nuts to say the least. While playing drums, I noticed it was hard to keep the beat straight because this kid was so good at improvisation that he'd play very non-rigid phrases that told a story as the instructor noted. It's hard to explain, but I was not used to playing with someone who was able to basically play tastefully out of time.

So when it comes to jazz guitar, I find it difficult to do this. I try not to play mechanical things like the scales, modes and arpeggios that I practice, but I often lose my place in the form of the piece and can't find my way. So in this confusion I'm trying to find a note that works, but as we all know about jazz standards, key changes are not uncommon.

I've found that the mixolydian mode sounds decent throughout a ii V I progression. Is it a bad idea to think "this is a ii V I in the key of ____" and head down to that scale's root and play around there until it changes? Linking the key changes together is something I cannot yet do intuitively, and thus I cannot honestly say I can "play over changes," something I hope to eventually do well.

So in closing, improvisation and jazz go hand in hand, and there's a difference between "improvising" by using the "right notes" from whatever key the song is currently in and improvising- playing with real heart and profound depth.

Thanks for reading/helpin'.

Hey man!

That's a good point...I've been there.


You are looking for a way to combine all that material you've studied and a more creative way to improvise and interact with your band.

Let me tell you something...
There is nothing wrong with you. You just haven't practiced this specific task.

Here's what you can do immediately:

First off, yes, you must know how to highlight chords with scales that best fit them. Work on your ear training, your ear development goes hand in hand with your technical development.

Then try this approach:

Step 1

1. create a very short line (1 to 4 notes)
2. Decide its rhythm
3. On a single chord, repeat the same melody a few times until you have it

Step 2

1. On just one chord, play a line with the same melodic curve and the same rhythm.
2. Play it for a few times then change melodic curve (rhythm) and play the new idea a few times

Step 3

1. Choose a chord progression (e.g., II V I or even an easy diatonic standard)
2. Choose a short melody and its rhythm
3. Play the same idea (same melodic curve and rhythm) through the whole progression adapting through the changing harmony

Doing so, in just a couple of weeks, you'll start thinking "thematically", through IMITATION of what you have just played. Your band mates will notice that immediately and will start following you, suggesting new lines and all...

You can also repeat and then develop the previous idea...or the other way around. In other words: IMITATION+DEVELOPMENT or DEVELOPMENT+IMITATION

ENJOY!!

[derek]

I'm not familiar with it. Perhaps my professor for master class, Mark Dziuba is familiar with the concept in the book or from the man himself.

Mark is a wondeful teacher, and one of the funniest guys I know. His approach to improvisation is really inspiring to me. His Trio Loco disc is just wonderful. Tell him Derek Dodson from NGW says hi if you don't mind.

[JoeHeider]

I will do my best to do that in my next lesson!

[Peter C]

If you don't know your theory, you can't even CREATE a motif, let alone sequence it melodically through changes.

Some players are natural born "storytellers", whichever the genre.

What can happen is that you come up with a motif and then labour for days/months to develop it through a lack of theoretical knowledge.

Knowing theory is in itself no guarantee that one will create inspiring/interesting motifs.

[Scrybe]

Dunno if this has been mentioned, but I found trying it just with rhythms (clapping/tapping) really useful...

Try writing a solo where every phrase goes across a bar line (e.g. start on the "and" of beat 2 bar 1, end on the "a" of beat 3, bar 2, and so on). Write it out on music paper, then learn it. Do it with just rhythms, or rhythms and pitch. If you're gonna do pitch as well (as I intend to do), I'd suggest picking a standard with a change of chord each bar or two. I'm gonna try it with All The Things You Are (one chord per bar). This way, you're kind of 'connecting the chord changes' with your solo, but it should still sound interesting because of the rhythmic displacement. I think. That's what I get going on when I try to hear it, but like I say, I've not had the chance to do it on my instrument yet with pitch as well as rhythm.

I tried the rhythm thing after noticing I tended to start and end phrases on the same down beats, and more so the more chords there were (e.g. I did it less on a 12 bar blues than on All The Things). I found it really effective. I'm guessing if you do it enough, you start to develop a natural feel for it and can incorporate it into your improvising. I did rhythms just against a metronome, but for pitch I'd suggest trying both with a backing track and with a metronome - rock the same solo each way and listen to whether it sounds any different without the changes behind it.

What really inspired me here was a local bassist who's very Ron Carter in his playing. His solos are generally unaccompanied, and loose sounding, but you always get a feel for the changes and he's alway perfectly in time. After listening a bit, I sussed that he sounded loose cos although he was alway in time, he was accenting a lot of off beats, and frequently started and ended his phrases there. His playing's really lyrical, so I nicked the concept and plan to hone it so I can use it in my own playing.

Hope this helps some. Like I say, I've only just begun to scratch the surface of this one. Apologies if it's already been suggested, but I aint got time to read the whole thread right now.