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Originally Posted by christianm77
yea we are definitely in different worlds...
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05-15-2021 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by TOMMO
surely a lad from brazil is allowed to have a different take on the blues than a guy who has actually been picking the cotton?
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Obviously, it's not a literal 12-bar blues with all dom7 chords, but you can think of it as a blues variant, or blues structure with major harmony, or a sublimated blues, or some other fancy word for "like a blues under the surface." Or not.
But it's a fact that for a lot of people being told "Wave is a really a blues with a bridge" causes aha! moments and helps them solve a tune that had stumped them. This is a common thing in the real world, not just an internet debate.
It's not ultimately a _debate_ at all. It's a song. The only arguments about what it is structurally or harmonically that count are demonstrations via playing it.
Too much talk, not enough playing. Let's hear empirical examples of your analyses of Wave.
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Originally Posted by vintagelove
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Originally Posted by djg
Originally Posted by John A.
If anybody perceives Wave as a blues: OK then - I wouldn't argue with any of you but I don't.
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Originally Posted by TOMMO
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Originally Posted by christianm77
Like I said, you can't play it as a blues - well, not without a lot of jiggery-pokery - and I'm not sure that isn't the litmus test really.
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Originally Posted by TOMMO
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OK, it's a blues... according to some people :-)
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This was years ago, for "Practical standards" thread. Based on Waves chords (as presented by Wizard), only using just 12 bars of it. But then, it's all reggae, anyhow ...
VladanMovies & CCC - Car Camera Clips: Driving from Koper Slovenia to Verona Italy, 21. Jun 2015
My Band camp
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Originally Posted by djg
The Clash, Queen, Michael Jackson for example - they all have used it at one time without writing or recording blues actually ....
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Originally Posted by Vladan
So it's not blues by any stretch. That's why... I expect you've guessed the point so I'll shut up now. Your dreams have come true
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Originally Posted by ragman1
This was partly in response to what John A was saying about Parker, which I felt was placing a non existent divide between Birds blues playing and, well, everything else he did.
If people are anything like I used to be, you look at a Bird blues in a book and read F7 and leave it at that, rather than looking at the line Parker actually played and the harmony it outlines. (And sometimes you get Bird playing a maj7 tonality over a 7#11 comp or something lol)
More modern players might see the blues tonality as substantially different to that of a major key standard but this wasn’t a thing, I suspect until the post-modal era (don’t know for sure tho.) Anyway, I view the Wave A section as basically being a variation of a Parker style blues. And it is bluesy! Sure you be won’t be able to plonk a minor blues scale on everything ... but that’s not what jazz blues playing (or even GOOD blues playing) is to me anyway. Ask BB or Eric, they know how to use the major blues scale.
listen to Charlie Christian, he tends to favour a major6 sound with a b3 for example - the major blues scale. (Sounds great on Wave.) Lonnie Johnson also often favoured the same scale. And you aren’t going to tell me he isn’t bluesy. And back then many standards were super bluesy - Lady be Good for instance.Last edited by christianm77; 05-15-2021 at 02:22 PM.
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Until the National Bureau of Standards provides a legal definition of "Blues", we are arguing about something undefined.
And, when NBS does provide a definition, people will still disagree.
My take: the form is structurally similar to a blues, but the sound is not what I usually think of as a blues.
I think Jobim could be very bluesy, for example, in So Tinha.Last edited by rpjazzguitar; 05-15-2021 at 05:17 PM.
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Look - try this, if you got to play blues vocab through it
D major blues/B minor blues on the first few chords,
swap to D minor blues on the Gm
Nail the D minor blues esp over the Bb7 A7 and Dm G7
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Originally Posted by djg
One problem (I think) is when players don’t have a concept of how to stylistically apply blues vocab on tunes with changes tastefully. So they can tend to file ‘blues’ as one thing and ‘standards’ as another.... Not sure if there are many books on this?
And actually boilerplate minor blues language rarely sounds that great on an actual blues tunes either for more than a chorus or two. That’s not just a jazz thing- as I say, skilled blues players all understand how to mix major and minor, and even outline chords.
vis a vis Parker, FWIW Blues for Alice is really not that different from Parker's standard ‘blowing’ version of a 12 bar... which is sort of a point I was making. The main, perhaps only, change is the move to minor in bar 3. You often hear a biiim7 in bar 8, too in the ‘standard’ version.
Anyway, doesn’t matter, your point stands... but I would also say I don’t think many died in the wool blues men would be terribly interested in playing Billie’s Bounce either lol.Last edited by christianm77; 05-15-2021 at 02:46 PM.
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Ok first time effort. Written via short improv
Tried to add some altered sounds to the V's.
Any constructive criticism welcome.
Just one A section
https://youtube.com/shorts/OwOqC1vMaWw?feature=share
Edited for spelling
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Originally Posted by Liarspoker
This kind of thing:
You'll feel like you're actually playing what's there, which is a good feeling.
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Originally Posted by ragman1
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Lol, in the time it took to record this and upload it, Christian made his post about going from major to minor blues...which is exactly what I do on the first A.
Its not a "blues," but it's absolutely a blues form, which is great for orienting yourself. And there's plenty of blues in it.
I'll take a listen to everyone else tonight, didn't want to be influencedLast edited by mr. beaumont; 05-15-2021 at 04:17 PM.
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https://www.soundclick.com/artist/de...?bandID=562588
Should be the first tune on the list. (EDIT: Now the one with the solo is second -- comping only is first).
I know there's a better way to post this, but I haven't figured it out yet.
I made my own backing track for this one. I exported midi from IRealPro into Musescore. Edited it trying to get a bass line and double time feel drums. I gave up on that and exported bass, drums and a tamborim pattern that I couldn't get any louder -- into Reaper. I then added the comping and the lead guitar, both with the Yamaha Pacifica 012 into the Boss ME80, right into the Focusrite 2i2.Last edited by rpjazzguitar; 05-16-2021 at 12:57 PM.
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So here's an A section with chord tones. As you can hear I lost my way a little near the middle but picked it up again.
Hard not playing vibrato as you can see by my half-hearted attempt. I caught myself going for it then got stuck in the middle
All constructive criticism welcome
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Here's another crack at it, this time electric and a slightly different approach.
PS: For this, I took one of the backing tracks on youtube, shortened it, slowed it down a hair, and made a vamp at the end (but still just a quick take, not endlessly laboring over takes). If anyone wants to use this as a backing track PM and I'll get it to you somehow.
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The clams are complimentary on our cruise ship
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Originally Posted by Liarspoker
Peripheral Gear, NWD
Yesterday, 10:49 PM in Guitar, Amps & Gizmos