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[QUOTE=PickingMyEars;1108131]Ron,
Love your playing as always. I am curious about the wealth of vinyl you have behind you, quite the collection. We might have to start a "what vinyl are you listening to" thread. A lot of these albums never made it to CD, and many weren't... digitized (I get my music anyway I can
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Thanks for the compliment! Regarding my collection, I've been fortunate to have a few friends that wanted to get rid of all their records and let me go through them first! But I do buy records a few times a year. I love checking out record shops! I also go for things that aren't available, or albums that I love enough to want to own them in that format (lots of Blue-Note content!). Just picked up a few Johnny Smith records that I'm digging lately. A listening thread could be fun for sure!Last edited by Ronstuff; 03-22-2021 at 09:51 PM.
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03-22-2021 05:24 PM
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How about Giant Steps on Guitelele?
Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
John
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Is that your call the week after Christian's? Originally Posted by John A.
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It probably should be, but I promised Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
a blues, and I've got a good one in mind.
John
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So Picking my ears....? what are you talking about. Are you just saying I can't play worth a grain of salt, or are you actually talking about Chord Sub organization.
Part of actually getting theory off the page and into vocabulary is having the skills to speak. Part of understanding subs is understanding Chord Patterns. Chord Patters are from the harmony of Jazz standards.
Tri-tone subs are basic level sub concept theory... Tri-tone concepts can be expanded in many harmonic or melodic directions.
Personally... there is no difference between melody and harmony.
Anyway.... awareness of Chord Patterns is a way of actually getting into Sub applications using your big ears without actually understanding the concepts... it is the vocabulary off the pages from the theory.Last edited by Reg; 03-23-2021 at 11:32 AM.
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Some players seem to have a kind of classic jazz melodicism. Somehow, they've been able to listen to a lot of jazz and internalize something about it which can be elusive. By common report, transcription (or at least lifting) is something these players are likely to have done. Or, maybe, just listening and absorbing is enough. The greats all put their own stamp on it. Originally Posted by PickingMyEars
There are lots of books with licks. Many for guitar and even more for other instruments. There is an enormous number of transcriptions on line of masters' solos.
So, you can get the vocab from recordings, from transcriptions or both. Theory can tell you which notes, but it will be news to me if it can tell you how to play them. That comes from time spent listening and absorbing.
If you're interested in Reg's take on vocabulary, he has a great many videos on youtube. I recommend them strongly. I can attest that watching a handful of his videos had a positive impact on my playing.
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Oh brother... I was talking about the importance of playing the theory, of getting cues from what you hear in the music you like, that you can't learn jazz from reading a text book--just like you can't learn a language or how to read and write from a textbook.
My playing didn't improve until I took the time to open my ears and listen, transcribe, HEAR what was going on.
Let's not get into that conversation that we've had countless times on this forum again. All I was asking about was linear vocabulary. You can say "it's just a triad, it's just a substitution from the melodic minor" or you can go deeper into the melodic construction. We tend to have the same conversations about this stuff ad nauseum, I was just hoping for something a little different.
Maybe we need to expand the way we talk about music... I dunno. I'm still waiting on that, cause I think the way we try to describe music doesn't match what the music sounds like in aural reality. That doesn't mean that describing music is impossible. It means we have to push ourselves to describe music beyond chord tones and scales, and I don't mean emotional labels and such. I mean things like melodic direction, shape, how to return to sounds from one chord to the next to create cohesion... There's plenty more that I don't know--but it goes beyond chord tones and scales. You need knowledge of chord tones and scales, but you also have to be aware of the other stuff that goes into building a line to make music.
And yes, some of that other stuff comes from studying melody--whether it is a jazz standard or a Charlie Parker contrafact--that's ALL melody. Not quite bs
Anyway, back to normal programing. Can't wait to see the next tune. Ready to PLAY
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Hey Rick... thanks. These posting one's playing and listening to others is still a great type of thread. It's great opportunity to play and checkout other players from different levels and skills etc... They do seem to have a life span, but Mr B seems like the perfect man to run the show. Looks like we may get to start playing this summer, two agents I work with have contacted me about gigs and festivals, I'm vaccinated so I said I would start to get players together.
Some of the gigs will be duos and trios. I'm hoping you might be able to join me on a few. Would be fun to post vids etc.. Or just play and have fun, that's what I do best.
Yea... Picking my ears, I do have a good idea what's going on. Have you listened to what you post both verbally and even more important.... Your Actual Playing... Your in some other world. Sorry man... you need to put in more time on your instrument. Obviously I have no magic tips or tricks.
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With the vaccines and the weather improving gigs are starting to happen. I'm looking forward to getting out more. Originally Posted by Reg
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Reg, did you think I was attacking your playing?
Did you think I was attacking you?
I was asking for a different perspective is all. I think that there is more to learning jazz than scales and chord tones.
We agree to disagree.
I never said I was a professional musician.
So why did you feel the need to attack my playing? To attack me? Aren't we all growing?
I'm a teacher, that's my profession. So, by nature, I like asking questions and investigating. I expect the same of my students.
I think I touched a nerve here. Take a deep breath. We've had conversations about things other than chord tones and scales in the past. Remember our discussions on phrasing? And, at one point, you even complimented me on my playing.
Maybe one day, we can get back to that. Until then, let's agree not to attack each other. I'll agree to post more and keep my process and questions to myself. Live and let live.
I think we can both agree that music brings us joy. Keep it at that
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Yea...
"Reg,
The typical ones, I know harmony as it is presented in jazz standards. I can recognize the theory of it and identify chord tones. I was talking more about the melodic vocabulary. I am one of those "music is language" kinda people. You can know a ton of theory, and have a ton of chops, and still not play worth salt.
Who were you talking about?
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Next tunes up.
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The "am" part? There are people that like to compare music to language, and those that don't. The conversation came up earlier in the thread, Mr. B even mentioned it. A playful jab at Mr. B Originally Posted by Reg
I wasn't talking about you Reg, I think this is a "what we have here is a failure to communicate" Cool Hand Luke moment. My response was really aimed at my frustration with my college jazz studies. The you was the general "you" and not a specific person. As in, someone could know a ton of theory and have a ton of chops and not play anything musical. Again, frustration at college experiences. I learned a bunch of theory in college. I remember classmates practicing spider exercises as a way to get achieve great technique. I remember doing those as well.
The only direct reference I made to you was about melody. Maybe I misconstrued your point, but you mentioned something about the importance of melody being bs. Every teacher I have studied with has told me, learn the melody and respect it as a guide. They've also said learn your chord tones and scales, which I do as well.
There is more to jazz studies than chord tones and scales. That doesn't mean stop practicing scales and chord tones. That does mean that you shouldn't limit yourself to scales and chord tones, get curious and dive into everything else that makes something musical.
That said, I never directly attacked your abilities or you as a person. Remember, I am a person behind this post. I've made the same mistake to others here on the forum in the past and got the appropriate reaction for my general "being a bit of an ass."
End all be all is we just gotta play more and talk less--makes us all less likely to get in trouble with each other.
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I bring up scat singing, probably too often.
If you can scat sing a good solo, then, all you have to do is practice getting your singing onto the guitar.
Is it necessary to be able to scat your solos? I'd say, apparently not, since I hear good solos I can't imagine anybody scat singing -- too many notes, too many odd intervals.
Is it sufficient to play only solos you can scat? My suspicion is that the phone will ring, you'll get gigs and you won't get 5 stars if your album is reviewed in Downbeat. Maybe I'm wrong about that.
But, what if you can't scat a good solo? How do you develop the melodic skill? It seems to me that if you listen to a lot of jazz, sooner or later it ought to penetrate.
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He was not speaking about you, Reg, directly. He was using “you” to mean “anyone” or “any person.” Originally Posted by Reg
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Very nice, ragman!
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