JGBE Virtual Jam (Round 10) - Idle Moments

[kris]

Why? I'm confused.

Jeff,
Ok, I'll try to answer.
This is my personal opinion. The confusion of people playing on different levels causes strange reactions and misunderstandings. I hear how big the difference is in the performance and sometimes I get an impression and ask myself what I'm doing here. Maybe there are some guitarists who have some fun with it. It was starting to tire me.
Best
kris

[mr. beaumont]

Well, as I see it, its a supportive place for people of all levels. My hope was to have folks at all levels.

And people can come and go...there's no pressure to participate every week.

Honestly, my only goals in starting this jam were to get people playing instead of talking about gear, and to hopefully highlight songs written by jazz musicians as opposed to standards, maybe get people to play/hear some tunes they hadn't before.

[kris]

Well, as I see it, its a supportive place for people of all levels. My hope was to have folks at all levels.

And people can come and go...there's no pressure to participate every week.

Honestly, my only goals in starting this jam were to get people playing instead of talking about gear, and to hopefully highlight songs written by jazz musicians as opposed to standards, maybe get people to play/hear some tunes they hadn't before.

Jeff,
I am in no way opposed to your legitimate goals, I only answered the question asked.
Have a nice jams
Kris

[mr. beaumont]

Jeff,
I am in no way opposed to your legitimate goals, I only answered the question asked.
Have a nice jams
Kris

Understood, and you're always welcome back.

[christianm77]

Well, as I see it, its a supportive place for people of all levels. My hope was to have folks at all levels.

And people can come and go...there's no pressure to participate every week.

Honestly, my only goals in starting this jam were to get people playing instead of talking about gear, and to hopefully highlight songs written by jazz musicians as opposed to standards, maybe get people to play/hear some tunes they hadn't before.

Oh tunes written by jazzers.... cool, I’ll make a different choice then

[PickingMyEars]

Chris'77, you could pick a Gj written by Django.

I have my sights on Daphne, because that's a tune on my Rhythm Changes playlist

Surprise us

[mr. beaumont]

Oh tunes written by jazzers.... cool, I’ll make a different choice then

It can certainly change direction, I just didn't want to step on the toes of the Practical Standards Group.

Plus, we have folks here posting standards a lot. I wanted to get into the "post 1955" stuff as much as possible.

[christianm77]

It can certainly change direction, I just didn't want to step on the toes of the Practical Standards Group.

Plus, we have folks here posting standards a lot. I wanted to get into the "post 1955" stuff as much as possible.

I think that’s a good constraint.. happy to work with it

[christianm77]

Chris'77, you could pick a Gj written by Django.

I have my sights on Daphne, because that's a tune on my Rhythm Changes playlist

Surprise us

Nope definitely not Daphne lol

[Reg]

hey kris.... I get it.... but who cares. Maybe take Idle Moments and play it in relative Major.

maybe,

// Eb69 Ab13 / G-7b5 C7#9b13 / F-7 B13 B7b13 //

/ same, but with different lead line etc........ //

/ Eb69 (Eb7#9) / Ab7#11 A13 Ab13...../ F-9 Bb13/ Cb7 Bb7b13 /

/ Eb-9 Ab13 Eb-9..F-7 Bb7b13 / B7#11......./ F-9 Bb7 / Eb69 E9#11//

And the melody would just be played up relative min 3rd with adjustments as your ear (or style) wants.

So this is my mental version... when I would actually play this, I would do my thing, ( lots of subs and chord patterns etc...) keeps me from getting bored.

It's interesting to hear all the talk and how it has evolved over the years. Still a long ways to go.

[mr. beaumont]

Jef, is the Jim Hall "back and forth" vibrato akin to a classical guitar vibrato? I would see how that would extend the sustain. Or is just like a traditional blues guitar vibrato? I might have to go back to those old Jim Hall recordings... ugh, that is such a PAIN (hehehehe).

Love Jim Hall, especially the way he comps. That said, he always said that he wanted to sound like Charlie Christian. Hence my remark of the 3 jazz guitarists that teach you 80% of what you need to know to play in this idiom--on that Grant Green comping thread.

This got buried, sorry I didn't see it yesterday.

Yeah, watch some video of Jim...its a "bridge to nut" wiggle, perpendicular to the fret. Very subtle...really doesn't sound "vibrato-y" in the style often associated with guitar. Just helps notes tail off in a pleasant way.

I could probably start a thread about getting a good sound with your hands...its something I'm super passionate about and always harped on beginner students about...playing with intention, and being very aware of what the guitar is giving you, and not working against it.

[Lionelsax]

Hi !

I love this thread !
So I tried it too !

[John A.]

Jeff,
Ok, I'll try to answer.
This is my personal opinion. The confusion of people playing on different levels causes strange reactions and misunderstandings. I hear how big the difference is in the performance and sometimes I get an impression and ask myself what I'm doing here. Maybe there are some guitarists who have some fun with it. It was starting to tire me.
Best
kris

Ok, so what wouldn't tire you? What do want or expect out of these threads that you're not getting?

As far as strange reactions go, I think that's just a product of this being online rather than in person and English not being everyone's best language. If you find yourself getting annoyed or thinking someone else is annoyed, it helps to keep that in mind. I don't think people being at different levels of playing ability had anything to do with the misunderstandings.

John

[rpjazzguitar]

Well, as I see it, its a supportive place for people of all levels. My hope was to have folks at all levels.

And people can come and go...there's no pressure to participate every week.

Honestly, my only goals in starting this jam were to get people playing instead of talking about gear, and to hopefully highlight songs written by jazz musicians as opposed to standards, maybe get people to play/hear some tunes they hadn't before.

It's been working for me. I've enjoyed hearing different approaches the tunes. I've learned a couple of new tunes and learned a couple of familiar ones at a deeper level. I've also enjoyed the technical discussion of approaches. And, I've appreciated how supportive everyone has been.

I once heard a top pro drummer, who had just been trashed by a nasty leader, say something I've thought about a lot since. He said, "we're all players at different levels". I take it to mean that you get to feel good about what you can do and, hopefully, inspired by players who can do things you'd like to be able to do.

It's also an opportunity to have your fellow travellers hear your music.

So, thanks,

[PickingMyEars]

This thread makes me miss real jam sessions, but I still love what everyone has brought to the table.

Even though essays still make their way into the comments--many by me --we are still posting music more than talking about music and talking about playing...

I like that

[Peter C]

Actually, a zoom meeting could be cool at some time - you could show what you mean on your guitar in real time, say hi to everyone. Scheduling it would be the biggest challenge.

[PickingMyEars]

Reg,

Serious ask. I would love a "so I know the theory of substitutions, but how do I apply them musically to my playing?"

I know the theory behind some of the subs you mention, but knowing all the chord sub's doesn't help me build a line that works within a melodic concept. That pushes back to the original harmony or pushes off of it. I've found that learning some licks that uses substitutions helps, but you kind of have to have that sound of substitute harmony in your inner ear somewhere to "catch in the wild"--find the ideas in recordings. Took me a while to get comfortable with hearing that altered stuff in a melodic context where all the chord tones felt comfortable--hearing them melodically that is (sorry for the redundancy, just to make sure the point was clear). I do think that would be best fit in another thread, even if a lot of playing is involved--which I would love as well. I am catching myself before I essay to write another essay

[rpjazzguitar]

Went to a live jam today.

Dolphin Dance was called.

I'd never memorized the changes until this week.

Because of this group I played it without a chart.

So, thanks. A couple more years of this thread and I should be in pretty good shape!

[Ronstuff]

Nice tune, another one that I've never played. Here's my quick take.

[TOMMO]

Went to a live jam today.

Dolphin Dance was called.

I'd never memorized the changes until this week.

Because of this group I played it without a chart.

So, thanks. A couple more years of this thread and I should be in pretty good shape!

That's great!

Nice tune, another one that I've never played. Here's my quick take.

Very nice!

[Reg]

Reg,

Serious ask. I would love a "so I know the theory of substitutions, but how do I apply them musically to my playing?"

I know the theory behind some of the subs you mention, but knowing all the chord sub's doesn't help me build a line that works within a melodic concept. That pushes back to the original harmony or pushes off of it. I've found that learning some licks that uses substitutions helps, but you kind of have to have that sound of substitute harmony in your inner ear somewhere to "catch in the wild"--find the ideas in recordings. Took me a while to get comfortable with hearing that altered stuff in a melodic context where all the chord tones felt comfortable--hearing them melodically that is (sorry for the redundancy, just to make sure the point was clear). I do think that would be best fit in another thread, even if a lot of playing is involved--which I would love as well. I am catching myself before I essay to write another essay

Picking my ears...

I could , but most don't really care and or have the skills... what makes playing easy or using subs... is to get your technical skills together. Most seem to have difficulty just playing and understanding basic changes and what or how they can influence melody etc...

But if you want to... I'll gladly contribute on different thread.... How many Chord Patterns do you know?

[mr. beaumont]

Lionel, great to have you aboard! Hope to hear a lot more of you over the coming weeks.

Ron, I've really been enjoying your playing as well. Your approach is familiar to me, I feel like we come at the music from similar places, but there's always something unexpected I hear in your takes that makes me smile.

[PickingMyEars]

Ron,

Love your playing as always. I am curious about the wealth of vinyl you have behind you, quite the collection. We might have to start a "what vinyl are you listening to" thread. A lot of these albums never made it to CD, and many weren't... digitized (I get my music anyway I can ).

Reg,

The typical ones, I know harmony as it is presented in jazz standards. I can recognize the theory of it and identify chord tones. I was talking more about the melodic vocabulary. I am one of those "music is language" kinda people. You can know a ton of theory, and have a ton of chops, and still not play worth salt. I was obsessed with theory in college. I knew people who had a bunch of theory under their belt. Who played the most interesting stuff? The people with melodic know how--how to make everything musical. Those people also came from modern day chitlin circuits. They played professionally in funk bands, R&B, and blues. They took that melodicism into their jazz playing. They understood the primacy of rhythm and were able to hear the syncopations of jazz more clearly. Of course it's different person to person, but I knew heavy metal guitarists who came to jazz and played... a whole lot of nothing.

So it wasn't the theory that was the key, though knowledge of theory is important. It wasn't the technique, but you need technique to play jazz. The end all is the vocabulary, what does it sound like, how did the masters translate the theory into music. If you know the vocabulary, you can use it to develop your technique. If you know the vocabulary, you can use it to understand theory. Doesn't quite work the other way, and it took me a while to understand that fact.

Had a lesson with Barry Greene a while back. I said that I wanted to work on tritone subs. He didn't ask about my theoretical knowledge or technique. He said, "first you have to know tritone vocabulary." He did recognize my ability to hear things clearly, and me--mr. obsessed with ear training--took that as a compliment . But the end all be all is the vocabulary.

That's what I meant Reg. It would be breath of fresh air to look at the vocabulary that gets the theory off the page.

[Lionelsax]

Lionel, great to have you aboard! Hope to hear a lot more of you over the coming weeks.

Thanks, if I've got time I will try to play several instruments without backing track.

[mr. beaumont]

Thanks, if I've got time I will try to play several instruments without backing track.

Cool! Keep in mind, the big goal here is about the improvisation--but I'd love to hear you take a chorus or two on sax!

And that goes for anybody here who plays other instruments.