JGBE Virtual Jam (Round 9) - Dolphin Dance

[christianm77]

You know I’m going to have to ask Jordan Klemons because he’s my magic guitar harmony wizard.

[rpjazzguitar]

If you play the tune a half step up you can hear the low note on the open E string for those two chords.

I like those bass note an octave below the rest of the guitar chord.

So, it's xx6786 for Bb13b9/Eb. You can reach the Eb on the A string, but I think it sounds better if the bassist plays it.

And, for the Abmaj7#5, I think a Cmajor triad works. Let the bassist have the Eb. So, it's xx555x. But, no Ab.

To hear the sound of the chord (in a different key), go up a half step and play 00666x. If you like that, you can play 4x555x in the original key.

For the fourth chord of the G pedal section I can't quite make it out, but I agree that xx123x works pretty well. I also like x65765.

[EDS]

I don’t like x6555x :-(

Mind you I don’t like any of the other options either haha

I think it sounds better with the C chord in root position x6x553 - thats what i did. You can also add the Ab in if you had a bass player.

[grahambop]

I think it sounds better with the C chord in root position x6x553 - thats what i did. You can also add the Ab in if you had a bass player.

Your solo version sounds good. I messed around with doing it solo but I would never have got it done properly in time, so I dropped it! It did help me learn the tune and the changes though.

[ragman1]

Which version of the recording you mean?

I don't mean any version. There are many versions.

[ragman1]

I don’t think these chords ever sound that good on the guitar anyway. Herbie knows how to voice them on the piano so they sound ok somehow.

Again he makes this sound more natural on the piano than it comes out on the guitar.

We guitarists can’t compete!

Exactly, that's the whole point.

[PickingMyEars]

Does anyone actually own that Jimmy Raney record or the Howard Roberts one?

They came up on AllMusic and I gave them a listen... damn they sound good.

Then I wanted to get the records... nope.

[grahambop]

Exactly, that's the whole point.

I like to know what Herbie is doing, I learn something by trying to capture it on the guitar.

[rpjazzguitar]

Herbie is a harmony wizard, with magic fingers. We guitarists can’t compete!

There are harmony wizards on the guitar too. It's probably harder on guitar, but there are players who take it pretty far.

Guinga - a lot of voicings you have never heard before.

Chico Pinheiro - notice grips you may have heard, but with functions you probably haven't heard.

Ben Monder- I just saw his video of My One And Only Love and couldn't believe it.

Many others, but those are the players who came quickly to mind.

The point is, with the bass holding down the root (and, quite possibly, another note or two -- this is an area I think could be explored more) an the guitar playing 3 and 4 note chords --- that's enough notes to make great harmony.

It's hard on guitar. Guitar is conducive to appreciating harmony -- up to a point. Beyond that point, some guitarists work things out on piano, or switch to piano. A few do it on guitar. One of the best quick lessons I ever got on this was a master musician who said, "there's always a way" -- referring to playing something seemingly impossible on guitar.

[kris]

Lionel Loueke solo version:

[kris]

This is one of the best take.
Dolphin Dance - Herbie Hancock Trio /1981/:

[Alter]

Lionel Loueke solo version:

Wasn't aware of this album, a solo guitar one too! Thanks, made my day!

[ragman1]

I like to know what Herbie is doing, I learn something by trying to capture it on the guitar.

Yes, but that's my point. I don't think a direct translation from piano (two hands/seven octaves) is as simple as that. I've found a site that asserts that its version is as about as kosher as it can get and gives the right scales for each chord. What's missing, of course, is him playing it!

An Analysis of "Dolphin Dance" | From the Woodshed

I've tried it. It's unquestionably tuneful but I can't get the background to sound solid enough, and I know why. It's not as simple as calling what the piano/bass is doing by a series of names and then simply playing that name on a guitar...

You may disagree, I don't know. I think it needs to be tweaked and made guitar-friendly :-)

[christianm77]

I think my main problem with that second to last bar is that if you put the E near the top of the chord it sounds wrong, while if you just put the Eb in there it sounds bland. You need the top Eb to be above the melody and the E to be somewhere in the middle of the chord, so it needs to be spread out somewhat

Another thing this tune does as rag points out is show how utterly inadequate chord symbols and lead sheets are...

[christianm77]

The late Rick Stone had a nice version of this tune in a trio

notice what he does for that problem chord...

[grahambop]

I like EDS’s solution for the Ab#5/Eb. The simple C triad sound helps it sound more consonant on the guitar.

Re. ragman’s post, of course these chords have to be adjusted or reduced for the guitar, I would have thought that was obvious. And of course you can’t just go by the chord symbol, that’s precisely what I meant by listening to Herbie’s voicings and trying to capture the essence of them on the guitar (but in a way that sounds ok on the guitar). It’s a challenge, but you learn something by tackling it.

[christianm77]

Well have to agree to disagree on that C triad haha. I think it gives undue prominence to the E. but as a soloing option it works fine.

Really if the guy in the link is analysing that chord right that E is not a #5 but a b6 though, so I’d be tempted to play either Ab with b6 as a tension tone or C with a b3 tension tone. You can make voicings out of these and I’ll give it a go when I can pick up a guitar.

[grahambop]

By the way here’s a version by Tim Lerch:

[christianm77]

WAIT - is that Bb7sus4 lol?

I think it sounds like he’s not making a meal of it, and maybe that’s the best option haha

EDIT: I only just noticed he has not one but THREE CC pickups on his telemacaster

[ragman1]

chords have to be adjusted or reduced for the guitar, I would have thought that was obvious

Totally obvious, which is the point :-)

Therefore listening to Herbie, of course, although maybe what the band is doing is not so obvious. I hate to be a Philistine but what's wrong with the RB changes? Sound-wise, I mean.

[John A.]

Totally obvious, which is the point :-)

Therefore listening to Herbie, of course, although maybe what the band is doing is not so obvious. I hate to be a Philistine but what's wrong with the RB changes? Sound-wise, I mean.

This is a measure-by-measure explanation. The RB changes are slightly off from the original. The RB's Ab7 vs HH's AbM7 in bar 6 and the pedal point in bars 33- (RB's E vs HH's B) are the only consequential ones. But the RB changes work with the melody and don't yield a lot of differences in soloing. I played DD with other people using the RB for many years without anyone noticing the differences.

John

[John A.]

Does anyone actually own that Jimmy Raney record or the Howard Roberts one?

They came up on AllMusic and I gave them a listen... damn they sound good.

Then I wanted to get the records... nope.

There are two Jimmy Raney/Al Haig versions, one live and one studio. I have the live version (but don't have my turntable hooked up, so can't listen to it).

John

[Reg]

yea... typically you start with an analysis of a tune. That just implies you make choices. How all the aspects of the tune are related and how they work together...

There can be different analysis of the same tune....
Anyway I made one while I made examples of playing the Tune... It's not really for kids... but it's complete.

[kris]

Attachment 80150
Everyone should be satisfied with these chords.

[TOMMO]

Attachment 80150
Everyone should be satisfied with these chords.

I'll add a copy to the other sheets I've found, kris - thanks! Although I'll sit this one out I may come back to this tune every once in a while....