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Originally Posted by ragman1
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02-01-2021 10:23 AM
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Originally Posted by rpjazzguitar
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Originally Posted by TOMMO
John
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Originally Posted by John A.
Also @ kris: thanks for listening and commenting.
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Originally Posted by TOMMO
John
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Originally Posted by John A.
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With tunes like this, players will often mark the top of the form in one way or another.
A good drummer knows where you are in the form and will cue it with a fill that lets everybody know. Good drummers seem to accept this responsibility as part of the basic job description -- and it can be enormously helpful.
Sometimes the bassist and chord instrument players will look at each other just before the chord change and raise an eyebrow.
In a big band you may see players make a downward flick of the hand each time a rehearsal letter is encountered.
One of my teachers once said, "everybody gets lost sometimes, the issue is how well you do in getting back on".
I think tunes with odd numbers of bars, dropped or added beats (e.g. a bar of 3 or 5 in an otherwise 4/4 tune), and free floating harmony tend to be hardest. Oftentimes, the aforementioned signals are less likely, maybe because everybody is preoccupied with staying on the form.
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I almost messed the form up on my soundcloud clip, the backing track kept me on it.
Honestly, once you learn your basic scales, it may be more fruitful to just listen the recordings of different musicians playing the form. Dexter Gordon, Miles Davis, Grant Green, Coltrane all play great over this modal form. Listen and sing, then play on the old' guitar box. Analyze last. That gets it into your playing faster IMO.
Tommo, your solo started off really strong. Solid phrases. Laid back time feel. I think confidence plays a huge role in all this--does for me
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Originally Posted by John A.
But, to prove I'm not afraid of it, here's a 16/8 version with enhanced bass just for you :-)
By the way, these are the headphones I use. So you too can have that unique Ragman listening experience!
Logitech H150 Stereo Headset with Noise-Cancelling Mic
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Originally Posted by PickingMyEars
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Originally Posted by ragman1
John
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I don't much like this tune. It's mainly because I run out of ideas over one chord for lots of measures. Still, I found myself enjoying it when I finally broke out the backing tracks. This is the end of the head (for transition) and 2 choruses. I felt okay until the last bit, and like many others, I sort of lost track of the form. Partly the track actually moves into the "head" style of comping before the out-chorus actually starts. That threw me off.
If I were at a jam session and had to play this, pretty sure I'd just take one chorus. Better for folks to think I shoulda played two than shoulda stopped before I got lost!
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Originally Posted by John A.
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By the way, listen to Jimmy Cobb signal the chord changes...
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I put it in my last post, but deleted it out cause it was too long.
Learning to listen in phrases really helps.
Like learning to hear what 2 measures of time sounds like or 4 measures of time. Get a metronome that can click REAL slow. Have the metronome click once every 8 beats. That's 2 measures of 4/4. Then go slower still, one click every 16 beats. Thats 4 measures of 4/4. Helped me improve my phrasing like night and day!
Any good jazz rhythm section knows how to setup a phrase for a soloist. A pianist might do an octave pedal jab in the bass register every 2 to 4 measures. Errol Garner had a trademark of doing a skip beat on the "and" of 3 at the end of a 2 measure phrase when he played his trademark 4-to-the-floor.
A drummer might do a hit or roll on the snare.
A bass player might do a triplet pickup phrase.
The band gives cues all the time. We just have to learn to hear themLast edited by PickingMyEars; 02-01-2021 at 07:15 PM.
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Originally Posted by John A.
I don't have a bass guitar so I play it on the acoustic into Audacity. You can then alter the pitch down 12 semitones and, voila, a bass sound. But it can get boomy if you're not careful which is why I tend to keep it fairly low.
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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I actually think the form is pretty easy if you think about phrases.
Form...its EVERYTHING.
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
John
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Most of what I recorded tonight sounds like I was about 13 minutes into a wicked Playing in the Band from 1973. I’ll try again tomorrow.
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It's very quiet, isn't it? I had an idea which might make the bars problem easier.
I didn't use this trick over my previous version but, as this is basically a 32 bar tune, I thought of playing something I already knew over it. I took Summertime because it's a very simple minor 8 bar melody and then imitated the rhythm - or thereabouts - over the So What form. It does work, I never missed that Ebm once. As it's played sort of half-time it's not so difficult.
Maybe a more complex melody might produce better results, I don't know, but it does keep you focussed. And then the secret is to disguise it sufficiently :-)
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It is out-Summertime over static chord.
If you attend a real jam session, anything can happen.
A good rhythm section can help you, but they're just living people and anyone can make a mistake.
You have to listen to each other and be sure where you are and what is playing ..
A virtual jam with a backing track is not just an exercise.Last edited by kris; 02-04-2021 at 05:28 AM.
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Here goes. I spent a few days trying to fight off old rock and roll habits that continue to haunt me. These were my favorite two consecutive choruses from tonight’s attempt.
Last edited by wzpgsr; 02-04-2021 at 01:46 AM.
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My suggestions - thinking about the 'So What' AABA 32 bars:
AA-story / d Dorian 16 bars
B-question / eb Dorian 8 bars
A-answer / d Dorian 8 bars
Maybe this will help with the phrasing of this modal tune which is 'So What'.
Best
Kris
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I'd say Miles himself was doing phrasing. If you speed up the YouTube transcription you can hear it. It's not Summertime but there's obviously some shadow of a tune there. And he only had to do two choruses before another player took over.
Summertime puts the flourish on the last line of the song but Miles was doing the flourish over the Ebm which might have been more effective.
Or, of course, one can write one's own idea, again not too hard.
Another way to look at the fingerboard
Today, 10:35 PM in Theory