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Originally Posted by grahambop
It's like a guru, isn't it?
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02-05-2021 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by ragman1
Maybe your English is better than my Polish...but tell me what do you pracitse/I mean jazz/?
Do you want be better than Miles Davis?
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02-05-2021, 09:25 AM #128Dutchbopper GuestOriginally Posted by ragman1
What I miss in student level playing is invariably the lack of "real" jazz content. You get people noodling in a diatonic style over changes (fluently or not) which is not "wrong" per sé but simply is NOT the language that is spoken by the masters. It's a poor approximation at best. Like a 3 year old speaking. You see and hear that kind of playing all over the place. It's simply a lack of vocabulary.
The point is, real jazz content can be found in licks and complete solos by the masters. Not scales or theory.
DB
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Originally Posted by Dutchbopper
You know that old thing: 'Give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. Teach him how to fish, you feed him for life'.
If someone asks 'How do I play over a ii-V-I?' and I say 'Like this' and give him, say, a couple of licks, what will he do? Imitate them - all two of them. But if he understands how to end a phrase according to the tune, in context, in accordance with what's gone before, then he'll never need a set lick.
Does that make sense?
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02-05-2021, 10:04 AM #130Dutchbopper GuestOriginally Posted by ragman1
Theory is a set of grammatical rules of a language. Interesting for teachers yes. Maybe interesting for non native speakers of the jazz language even. But you should focus on the sounds first.
I am convinced you can even forego the after the fact analysis and learn by imitation only. We have a shitload of gypsy jazz players over here that do not even know the names of the chords they are playing.
So insight is ok with me if it is based on real playing examples (licks and solos)
DBLast edited by Dutchbopper; 02-05-2021 at 10:47 AM.
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Originally Posted by ragman1
But this is just getting back into the same tedious discussions we’ve had before around these subjects. The simplest answer is to judge any methods by their results. Anyone can listen to all our respective clips or videos, they can make their own mind up from that.
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If you want to play jazz convincingly, it has to be the music you hear in your head. I have no idea how you could do it without a ton of listening and hearing and singing licks and lines.
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Ragman you are wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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If you are talented or not taleted first you have to get a cookie to eat it.
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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02-05-2021, 10:15 AM #136Dutchbopper GuestOriginally Posted by grahambop
Please do not take this the wrong way, but ... from the clips in the JGBE virtual jams I can so easily hear who is (trying to) speak(ing) the language and who is noodling diatonic style without actually speaking the language of jazz. For some it is logical because they are beginners. For others a different approach based on applying licks and learning solos might help.
DB
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All great improvisers-they had their masters before.
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Originally Posted by Dutchbopper
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Speaking of mindlessly playing licks and scales... last night as I was finishing work, hadn't played all day, I decided to just take two choruses and record it, just to see what came out. Actually I wasn't totally disappointed.
Always open to thoughtful observations and advice.
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Originally Posted by Dutchbopper
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Originally Posted by grahambop
Like I said, I have no authority, except that of someone who has taken baby steps, and I know the difference between taking a step and falling on my face.
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02-05-2021, 12:04 PM #142Dutchbopper GuestOriginally Posted by ragman1
I agree that there is no end to learning. Still, if it takes you 40 years to play a decent jazz solo, I'd say you are not studying the right things.
DB
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02-05-2021, 12:10 PM #143Dutchbopper GuestOriginally Posted by lawson-stone
DB
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Originally Posted by Dutchbopper
I agree that there is no end to learning. Still, if it takes you 40 years to play a decent jazz solo, I'd say you are not studying the right things.
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Originally Posted by lawson-stone
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Originally Posted by lawson-stone
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
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I think Mr. Ragman definitely has a philosophical approach to the art of improvisation.
I recommend playing more and less talking.
Jazzingly
Kris
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Originally Posted by kris
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Kris has participated with a clip each week and has posted dozens of videos over the years.
But I think the talk-- as long as its about playing-- can be very helpful too. I envy people who can articulate an actual concept about improvising, because mine is just "try to hear phrases and connect the dots as I go."
Rob MacKillop not feeling well.
Yesterday, 10:43 PM in Everything Else