Chromatically descending ii-Vs

[Reg]

Hey gang ...sorry, not trying to complicate something simple. But you get to a point where almost all tunes and progressions are simple. But when you try and verbalize what you don't have to think about when you play...sorry I'm working on making it simple. I'll try again, The example of chromatic II-Vs are about as simple as it get in jazz, and their are about 20 standard harmonic approaches that you should be able to play and understand with out having to think, but take to much time to verbally explain. Trial and error will work too. Time on all instruments...Reg

[Reg]

Hey all... when you say learn the tune, what do you mean? Memorize, listen to as many examples as you can, analyze the tune, ask someone else. What are your approaches. Are their time constraints, at home...have all the time you want, at gig and don't know tune, have about 15 sec. In the latter, do you follow the melody when you solo, or do you blow over the changes best you can? I'm really interested... Reg

[franco6719]

"Memorize, listen to as many examples as you can, analyze the tune, ask someone else. What are your approaches."

All of the above really.

"Are their time constraints, at home...have all the time you want, at gig and don't know tune, have about 15 sec. In the latter, do you follow the melody when you solo, or do you blow over the changes best you can? I'm really interested"

No, that''s certainly true. How much time you can spend on a tune or tunes depends very much on time constraints. I certainly agree with that. It's just common sense. If you have only 15 seconds, you don't really learn the tune (except someone with a freakish memory) I think, but you can only try to play the best you can by playing around with the melody or "running the changes" or whatever comes to your mind and ears.

[Reg]

Hey Franco...thanks for response... yea it is pretty much common sense. I see tunes all the time I don't know at gigs, well not all the time,depends on gig, but because I've put a ton of time into analysis, and all the theory etc... it usually takes 10 to 15 sec. to understand and play most new tunes or arrangement of old etc... I see the form first, quick analysis of sections, outside in. There's not a whole lot of new material, usually versions of... I definitely don't have freakish memory, I wish I had better, but most tunes fit into a form and I just watch the melody, which have standard forms etc.. I do read exceptionally well and play too many gigs, very little time to practice and write.
What flatwounds do you use, I went back to Thomastik-Infeld, I dig the sound but have to change strings every few weeks. Reg

[franco6719]

No, absolutely. You're right about standard tunes and common chord progressions, etc.. The more standard tunes you know well and the more you have played in the past, the easier it is to pick a tune up. This shows the importance of a large repertoire of tunes and less reliance on fake books.

I remember I used to marvel at professors at Berklee or other advanced players who could play over any tune, even extremely complex non-functional harmonies, on the spot. But I think you are right: it's a matter of vast repertoire and experience. It's not so much freakish memory in fact. Most of the folks were just normal people who had played continuously for many years. I stopped playing for a long time and this is probably one of my biggest losses as a result, apart from a loss of self-confidence and so on. But I keep working on it.

I am currently using D'Addario Chromes. A friend from Germany mailed them to me. Out where I am, it's hard to be picky about strings. I usually have to play with whatever brand is available and I can rarely find anything above .11-.52 or something.

[Reg]

Keep playing and working on it... you seem like your in a great direction. I think I'm going to go back to D'A's Chromes... there cool and at least they last awhile. Thanks for info...Hey Man I've be doing this for a long time, I understand theory very well and can explain etc... Don't hesitate to hit me up for info... Reg

[franco6719]

I've had my most recent pack of Chromes for over a month now (playing and practicing about 7 hours a day) and they are still in great shape. They seem to last longer than the rounds to me.

Thanks for your comments and kindness in sharing ideas. No, this site it chock full of info on theory, etc., but I am mostly focusing on transcriptions, developing lines, tunes and ear training these days. I had an abundance of theory back in my Berklee days that I need to balance out essentially.

[Reg]

Hey Franco... cool thanks man...
When were you at Berklee... I graduated in mid 70's... I must be getting old...
Best Reg

[Goofsus4]

Good!

I was just skiing the backcountry yesterday, thank you very much, and was indeed carving some sweet S-turns in thigh deep power. Oh yeah it's a good thing. Good analogy, by the way, because it definitely exemplifies that feeling you get when you are linking turns perfectly. Descending in the groove, with rhythmic perfection, in perfect harmony with the medium. Nothing better than looking back up the fall line and seeing those perfect tracks, knowing that all the people sitting in traffic on I-70 can see that glistening mastery from three miles away.

Then again, sometimes you catch some funky variable crust and do a face plant...

[BigDaddyLoveHandles]

Ah, I wish I'd been skiing this past weekend, but I had a sick child. Maybe next weekend...

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Just to summarize and toss in an idea. If the original changes are, for example:

| Emin A7 | Ebmin7 Ab7 | Dmin7 G7 | Cmaj7 ||

Then Ebmin7 Ab7 are the chromatic chords, and you can play a tritone sub, like:

| Emin A7 | Amin7 D7 | Dmin7 G7 | Cmaj7 ||

When it comes to simplifying fast moving changes, you could concentrate on ii or V chords, so the above two yield at least four simplifications:

| Emin | Ebmin7 | Dmin7 | Cmaj7 ||
| A7 | Ab7 | G7 | Cmaj7 ||
| Emin | Amin7 | Dmin7 | Cmaj7 ||
| A7 | D7 | G7 | Cmaj7 ||

I like the last one the best. Guess that makes me old school.

Finally, one thing you can do to make four bars more cohesive is to split them in half! Why not play a two bar phrase and then play a variation, like a call-and-response. The last progression makes it easy to do by dropping down a second:

[A7 | D7] | [G7 | Cmaj7]

[franco6719]

Hey Franco... cool thanks man...
When were you at Berklee... I graduated in mid 70's... I must be getting old...
Best Reg

I was there from 1985 to about '88.

[franco6719]

"I like the last one the best. Guess that makes me old school."

Someone else said something similar actually. But I do not understand why targeting the dominant chords instead of the minor chords is "old school". You can do almost anything on dominant chords. If you focus on the minor7 chords, it seems to me you will be limited to mostly dorian and melodic minor.