Fewell's Melodic Approach - Ch. 1-2

[fep]

Talking about exercise 2.1 & 2.2...

About 40 years ago I read Larry Carlton writing about what he called a "Super Arpeggio" and that was part of his triad approach.

Long story short, start on a note and start going up in thirds (often works out to major third alternating with a minor third, use your ears). Take chunks of those notes and use them for melodic ideas.

Say you start with G and go up in 3rds...

G Bb D F A C E G well that's all good for Gm, and yep it looks a lot like Fewell's exercise 2.1.

So using that you can play off of G Bb D (Gm triad), Bb D F (Bb triad), D F A (Dm triad), A C E (Am triad), A C E (Am triad), C E G (C triad)... Yeah playing Am stuff over Gm, sounds upper extensioney...

This is a simplification for me, start on any chord tone and head off in 3rds, don't even need to be aware of triad names that way.

Near the end of the exercise posted, I alternated between a C and Bb triad while the backing was Gm... which, is the same kind of thing that Larry Carlton did in that tune that was posted earlier in this thread.

[GuitarJay]

Up a 4th G to C, G A B C

Down a 5th also G to C, G F E D C

I've heard it traditionally referred to as the cycle of 5ths (though it could have been a cycle of 4ths but common practice decided on 5ths, not sure why), which is down a 5th (but up a 4th is the same thing). I'm use to this pattern for the cycle (note it sometimes goes down a 5th and sometimes up a 4th).

Thank you. I guess the picture on page 5 was throwing me as it is fifths if you move clockwise and I guess I just think in that direction, but I'm going bi-directional from now on.

[TOMMO]

OK, at the risk of looking like a doofus, here goes: Exercise 2.2, starting on page 14, the text at the top of the page talks about Cycle 5 and the second paragraph starts with, "Start with G minor on the tenth fret, and then move down a fifth to C minor."

Isn't moving from G to C a fourth, not a fifth? In fact this entire exercise seems like it is moving through a cycle of fourths, not fifths.

What am I missing? Maybe it is the fact that he's moving "down" from G to C. I've never encountered this line of thinking, but I'm far from a theory expert.

Thank you!

The way I have learned this is called "backcycling" - going through the cycle of fifths counter-clockwise.

[Doublea A]

OK, at the risk of looking like a doofus, here goes: Exercise 2.2, starting on page 14, the text at the top of the page talks about Cycle 5 and the second paragraph starts with, "Start with G minor on the tenth fret, and then move down a fifth to C minor."

Isn't moving from G to C a fourth, not a fifth? In fact this entire exercise seems like it is moving through a cycle of fourths, not fifths.

What am I missing? Maybe it is the fact that he's moving "down" from G to C. I've never encountered this line of thinking, but I'm far from a theory expert.

Thank you!

A fifth is a backwards fourth. In other words a cycle 5 means resolving from a dominant chord to the tonic such as G7 going to C or C7 to F.


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[MarkRhodes]

Isn't moving from G to C a fourth, not a fifth? In fact this entire exercise seems like it is moving through a cycle of fourths, not fifths.

The cycle (or circle, if one is picturing the roots on a clock face) can be thought of as moving in fifths or fourths. I just say 'the cycle'.

[TOMMO]

The cycle (or circle, if one is picturing the roots on a clock face) can be thought of as moving in fifths or fourths. I just say 'the cycle'.

While the cycle of fifths is the most commonly used there are also the cycles of 3rds/6ths and 2nds/7ths.

[Doublea A]

While the cycle of fifths is the most commonly used there are also the cycles of 3rds/6ths and 2nds/7ths.

Yes the total of the numbers always equals 9 ( for you math geeks out there ).
5ths are backwards 4ths and vice versa. 5 plus 4 equals 9. 3rds are backwards 6ths and vice versa. 3 plus 6 equals 9. And 2nds are backwards 7ths and vice versa. 2 plus 7 equals 9.
Well, that ends my math class for today. See you in 2020.


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[TOMMO]

Yes the total of the numbers always equals 9 ( for you math geeks out there ).
5ths are backwards 4ths and vice versa. 5 plus 4 equals 9. 3rds are backwards 6ths and vice versa. 3 plus 6 equals 9. And 2nds are backwards 7ths and vice versa. 2 plus 7 equals 9.
Well, that ends my math class for today. See you in 2020.


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I beg to differ here: it always equals 8 = octave. A fifth and a fourth make up an octave - same with the other complementary intervals...

[corpse]

I beg to differ here: it always equals 8 = octave. A fifth and a fourth make up an octave - same with the other complementary intervals...

I think he's referring to flipping intervals upside down. 9-6=3, so your 6th turns into a 3rd if the top note is lowered an octave. CA is a 6th, but AC is a 3rd.

[TOMMO]

I think he's referring to flipping intervals upside down. 9-6=3, so your 6th turns into a 3rd if the top note is lowered an octave. CA is a 6th, but AC is a 3rd.

Ah - I see - thanks, never looked at it that way.

[digger]

I was hoping to have made a little more progress on this book before today, as tomorrow it's back to work, and the few hours a day I've been putting in will be sadly vastly reduced.

Still, hopefully I'll meet the end of Jan target for completing Chapter Two.

Currently I'm still working on playing the shapes in Exercise 2.2 through the cycle. I'm learning them backwards and forwards, and just starting to apply the "extra" shapes (the F#m and Em) - which are essentially the same, save for one note - to all the other keys, again backwards and forwards. This gives three positions for each key, up and down.

My biggest issue remains the one I wrote about earlier in the thread - jumping from one chord and its associated shapes to another in a split second. I need to nail this before attempting Elle, and I fear this may take some time.

My second biggest issue, and one that I'm trying to address through other studies, is to try and sound jazzy whilst doing all of this!

But great fun, and I'm looking forward to persevering even as the practice time diminishes.

Happy new year!
Derek

[Vladan]

I think he's referring to flipping intervals upside down. 9-6=3, so your 6th turns into a 3rd if the top note is lowered an octave. CA is a 6th, but AC is a 3rd.

Well, if b3 is considered to be 3, b6-6 ... then OK, but ...

... 9 thing is about number of 8 note scale scale degrees used to reach same note, no "if"s, no exceptions:

CDE, 3/ *2
CBAGFE, 6/ *5

ABC, 3/ *2
AGFEDC, 6/ *5

BC, 2/ *1
BAGFEDC, 7/ *6

... and so on.

*You can also call it 7 rule, if you do not count origin/ destination note, or only count steps, ie. number of moves through scale.

[Doublea A]

I don’t think that I was clear about my theory of ninths.

C to E is a major 3rd.
E to C is a minor 6th.
3 plus 6 equals 9.

An inverted third will always be a sixth and vice versa. This same logic applies to 4’s and 5’ and to 2’s and 7’s.

[MarkRhodes]

While the cycle of fifths is the most commonly used there are also the cycles of 3rds/6ths and 2nds/7ths.

Right. Yet it tunes, the root movement tends to follow the most common cycle. It's really good to know that cold.

[TOMMO]

Recorded this clip today of exercise 2.2 playing the triads and extensions up and down through all 12 keys. Editing took me longer than recording - have to get more familiar with my video editing software....

[MarkRhodes]

Recorded this clip today of exercise 2.2 playing the triads and extensions up and down through all 12 keys. Editing took me longer than recording - have to get more familiar with my video editing software....

Nice! I'll have to make a video today too. As for editing, my idea of it is lopping off the beginning or the end, nothing else. ;o)
What kind of software do you use? I just 'trim' in VLC.

[TOMMO]

Thanks Mark. I'm using DaVinci Resolve (freeware) - actually way too complex for what my needs are right now. I'm only fading in and out so far (you can do that for video and audio independently) plus raising the audio level to where it needs to be.

[TOMMO]

Today's offering: Exercise 2.3 "Elle":

[digger]

Nice work, Tommo. A really sweet tone and an equally sweet improv. You navigate the changes well and there were some really nice lines running across those changes. Well done!

Derek

[TOMMO]

Nice work, Tommo. A really sweet tone and an equally sweet improv. You navigate the changes well and there were some really nice lines running across those changes. Well done!

Derek

Cheers Derek - just wish I could get rid of that "red light fever"

[MarkRhodes]

I tried making a video of exercise 2.2 this morning. No improv, no creativity, just playing it all the way through without looking at the book or making a mistake. It did not go well. I'll have to slow this down more and gut it out.

Switched to making videos for the Patterns For Jazz group. That worked out better.

But I like the Fewell material (though I don't care for the tune "Elle"). It's well worth learning, I think.

[digger]

Cheers Derek - just wish I could get rid of that "red light fever"

I'm the same! Inspired by your video I thought I'd jump ahead to Elle (not really nailed the shapes to my satisfaction yet) but as soon as the first change (Am to Ebm) occurred I was lost! Back to the drawing board

Although, what I then did was to actually write out the Amin7 shape on a piece of paper in black ink, and superimpose the Ebmin7 shape on top in red, and then I could see all the choices I had at that single moment in time.

The change from Ebm to Dm is easy - just slide down a fret (as is Bbm to Am). And then, having got this far, I realised that Dm7 to Bb7 was just down a string and up a fret... Not sure that this is the recommended way to learn these things but hopefully it'll kick start things.

Regards
Derek

[digger]

I tried making a video of exercise 2.2 this morning. No improv, no creativity, just playing it all the way through without looking at the book or making a mistake. It did not go well. I'll have to slow this down more and gut it out.

Switched to making videos for the Patterns For Jazz group. That worked out better.

But I like the Fewell material (though I don't care for the tune "Elle"). It's well worth learning, I think.

Slow is good!

I kind of agree re. Elle - and also the previous exercise. The melodies aren't overly inspiring, but looking at what's ahead in the book is really exciting, and I think we just have to trust in the journey. I listened to a couple of GF videos on YouTube and again, it shows how exciting this methodology will be. We just have to do these "simple" exercises to start with.

Cheers
Derek

[TOMMO]

When I first worked through the book I went back and changed "Elle" to a series of II - V - Is to practice the according lines over it that come later in the book. It's a simple tune but remember it's for the beginner and the chord changes are obviously some kind of challenge....

[losaltosjoe]

Played it straight using the recommended fingerings from exercise 2.1. Backing track is via Band In A Box at 115 bpm with a click track in 3/4 time. Recording yourself is a humbling act...