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Originally Posted by christianm77
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08-25-2019 09:08 AM
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I think looking at the root movements of just the first 4 bars at the piano for an hour might be very helpful. It's a V I pattern simply modulating down by a 3rd like the "Have You Met Miss Jones" bridge. It can be memorized slowly as a routine, so that it's no longer difficult. The second and third lines do the exact same thing. Line four is like Tune Up .
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Originally Posted by rintincop
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Originally Posted by buduranus2
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Originally Posted by christianm77
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Sorry for being a grump. Coltrane is very special to me. I see him as more than a Sax player who played interesting notes.... although he was certainly that.
the fact that people focus on stuff like Trane changes, while cool and impressive neglects so many things I find more interesting about his music.
It’s like turning his music into a crossword puzzle sometimes the way it’s taught....
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Originally Posted by christianm77
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Saint John Coltrane Church
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Originally Posted by ragman1
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You're right, I've looked it up, and I'm not saying a word.
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I don't think there's a good way to 'simplify' Countdown, beyond just playing Tune Up. Which is why I don't think Countdown is really going to to anyone any good in an intermediate level jazz improv course. Can you get together with the other folks in class without the instructor, and work on some simpler tunes, concentrating on dynamics, rhythmic density, phrase lengths, articulation, interaction, trading 8s & 4s, stop time, intros endings, all useful and practical things to go over in a combo setting, and let Countdown patterns be an individual at-your-own-pace practice goal, until they come out naturally in group playing situations? Best wishes for your music!
PK
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Originally Posted by paulkogut
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Originally Posted by ragman1
Coltrane Church
Who knew?
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Pianist Michael Wolfe has a great YouTube on Giant Steps concepts. I especially like his Big V shortcut, where he plays a dominant altered scale over the first few chords leading to the I of the new key change. For example, play Bbalt over the beginning chords finally resolving to Ebmaj7, continue the same over the next sequence.
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Yes a have a vid demoing this idea more generally
So countdown would go from
Em F7 | Bb Db7 | Gbmaj7 A7 | D
to
Em | Em7b5 | A7alt | D
by this logic. Which is basically Tune Up.
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Originally Posted by christianm77
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Em | Em7b5 | A7alt | D
Which means you're going up in m3rds: Em - Gm - Bbm - (D).
Mind you, I don't know if any of this actually simplifies the playing of it because it's so fast.
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Originally Posted by ragman1
What your talking about is more patternsy to my mind.
Really the Coltrane thing comes down to patterns. You can then apply those patterns on simpler progs or vamps, which is what Trane did.
But pattern based playing... well it can be a bit relentless so it’s good to have different tools.
Another way to look at the fingerboard
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