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Hey guys/gals.
I play guitar in a trad jazz band and really like the music we do. It covers everything from Bix Beiderbecke, Jelly Roll Morton, and Louis Armstrong to early Duke Ellington. I almost always play an old resonator guitar with this group and much of what I do is rhythmic chord work. I keep it simple and it seems to work for myself and the band. However, I am called on to solo from time to time. This is where I’m a bit disappointed in what I do. I’ve been told by, more accomplished, jazz guitarists that there’s a “jazz language” that needs to be understood in order to really convey something in a solo. I get the concept... I think. Sometimes I can hear a melodic idea in my head over a given chord progression. Other times... nothing. So, I resort to what I’ve done most of my guitar playing life. All that comes out is a bunch of random noodling on scales or arpeggios. While that doesn’t necessarily sound bad over a tune, it isn’t special or memorable in any kind of way. That approach used to work just fine for my blues, rock and country background. But it doesn’t seem to fit the trad jazz I’m doing now. I want my solos to mean something. I don’t need to be a flashy virtuoso. In fact, I often embrace the “less is more” philosophy.
I suppose this this post isn’t really a question. It’s more or less just getting my thoughts in front of other jazz guitarists. Hopefully someone here can relate.
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04-30-2019 10:36 AM
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That approach used to work just fine for my blues, rock and country background. But it doesn’t seem to fit the trad jazz I’m doing now.
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Can only speak for myself, but the only way I know is to copy some phrases from your favourite players and keep playing around with them (it’s how I learned). I can’t see how you can develop good melodic ideas without using some great examples as a template to follow. But it’s not an overnight process.
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I'd go with that too. If you're going to continue with trad extract a few attention-grabbing licks from good recordings and astonish the populace with them!
Good advice.
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Originally Posted by ragman1
Chords and rhythmic patterns aren’t the problem when playing this stuff. I feel fairly comfortable with that. It’s just coming up with something melodic in a solo that has my stumped.
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Originally Posted by grahambop
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If it helps, I don’t think you need to transcribe entire solos. Just pick the phrases you like best. This was Emily Remler’s advice.
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Yeah, pick and choose phrases on a transcription...doing a whole solo is for school
What are some tunes you do?--I'd love to help more. I love this kind of music too.
The thing you might need to do a bit is chase some changes...play lines that really outline the harmony. Once you get good at that, it's easier to play "less is more" but still follow the changes. Ideally, if the rhythm section dropped out in the middle of your solo, you could still hear the chords change--at least the important ones...
And keep in mind, a lot of jazz language is rhythmic...so when you steal lines, don't just get hung up on the pitches...when a line speaks to you, figure out if there's something cool going on in the rhythm too.
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Originally Posted by dallasblues
This is something I'm working on as well. I have identified 3 approaches good soloist or composers use:
1- Motif development (aka theme and variation). Basically come up with something simple and vary it rhythmically and melodically while transposing it to different harmonic situations in the tune. Also moving to different theme and revisiting or making allusions to an earlier theme later on. Wes Montgomery is a master of this (also Mozart and you name it )
2- Using the melody. That's in a way still theme and variation but the whole head is the the theme.
3- Guide tone line. Making melodies that go through the tune by following a voice across all the chords. Voice is not necessarily the same chord tone degree. Obvious choice is 7 to 3, 3 to 7. This really amounts to letting the way the harmony is composed do the work. Soloist job is to find interesting rhythms and embellishments.
A good sense of form is also important. Giving a the listener a sense of beginning, development and climax etc. Again Wes Montgomery is an obvious inspiration in this regard.Last edited by Tal_175; 04-30-2019 at 01:03 PM.
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This is kinda shit I'm specializing in as well. And I play a National resonator too! I tell what, few things:
Resonators don't have much of a sustain, so playing single note lines are not an easy task even if you know what you doing.
Second, trad jazz doesn't assume guitar solos, not in a sense of long improv chorus after chorus like in modern jazz. So it's totally cool to work out short guitar breaks beforehand. Playing a cool catchy composed solo is way more productive than noodling 'hit and miss', especially when audience just trying to have a good time and dance to the music. They will thank you for that.
And finally, two words- CHORD SOLOS! That's a very effective tool that wouldn't compromise the groove, the fun, the vibe of trad jazz. Treat your resonator like a tenor banjo. Use your pinky a lot for getting those extra notes out of your chords. Fast tremolo bursts of chords. Again, this all work better than playing endless runs of single notes, when you surrounded by loud brass players.
Hope that helps!
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Re: chord solos
YESSS!!!!
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Originally Posted by dallasblues
OTOH since you mention Bix, Eddie Lang is an obvious reference point... but on resonator I would suggest getting into some Lonnie johnson. His blues based approach may appeal, and not hard to work out his solos.
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Trad jazz wasn‘t really into improvisation, either. It‘s perfectly fine to work out a solo in advance.
I played with a fine tenor guitar and banjo player once. He only took chord solos. He would play two beats of a chord, then use a different voicing for the next two beats. Vary the rhythm in the right hand.
Imagine you‘re playing a washboard. That‘ll make quite an impression.
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
After You’ve Gone
Singin’ The Blues (Bix B.)
Marchand de Poisson (S. Bechet)
Thats a Plenty
Basin Street Blues
The Mooche (Duke E.)
We work out of the Dixieland Real Book fairly frequently. We also use more formal arrangements pretty often too.
I’m gonna track down a few different recordings of each tune to see if I can find some solos, or sections of solos, I like. Maybe that’ll help get the creative spark.
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Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
I’m a bit embarrassed to say that I’m not entirely sure I understand what a chord solo entails. I think I know what it means but I’m not really sure. I’m assuming it means playing different chord voicings over the same changes? I’ve done that before. It sounded okay. Maybe not as interesting as it could be, but at least it fit the progression. I’ve often played licks or phrases using two notes together. While, not exactly, chords I like the way it sounds.
While I’ve played guitar for 30 years or so I clearly know very little about what I’m doing. Ha!
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This is the kind of chord solo they used to play. This one (originally played by Dick McDonough) looks quite hard in parts, but you might get some ideas from it.
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Originally Posted by dallasblues
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I got a lot out of this video from sometime forum member Jonathan Stout, who is pretty deep into this style
Also, here's Christian, who is commenting in this very thread!
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Originally Posted by dallasblues
It’s just coming up with something melodic in a solo that has me stumped.
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Or you could just play the melody, and vary it.
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Originally Posted by christianm77
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“Traditional” jazz is certainly not my primary field but I think you could serve the music this particular ensemble is presenting by embellishing the melody of any tune you’re called to solo on. I think strong rhythmic statements/variations guided and influenced very much by the original tune. This also serves to provide you with a very clear framework of specifically what to practice; take a melody and work with its strong notes as guide tones.
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Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
It can work, though.
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Originally Posted by Hep To The Jive
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Originally Posted by mr. beaumont
Ibanez pm200?
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