Improvising over minor(b6) chords

**ragman1** · 01-10-2017, 02:14 PM

I'm wondering why Colleen, whomever she may be, is playing Bbmb6... It puts the key of the piece in Dm but I'm not sure it makes it any easier.

**mr. beaumont** · 01-10-2017, 02:22 PM

I'm wondering if she has the alto chart and doesn't know...or knows and likes the melody in Dm on guitar? Mysteries...

**rpjazzguitar** · 01-10-2017, 03:38 PM

No, you should have wrote it D E F G A Bb C# and called it D harmonic minor.>>

If the chart says Dm7#5, do I want an A in the scale or a B, or neither?

I tried it it. B sounds bad. A sounds a little better.

**Vladan** · 01-10-2017, 04:16 PM

I don't know about charts, but if you have Bb in Dm it's likely you are not in C major, but rather in F major, or Bb major instead, so it's not likely to have note B, while it is highly likely to have note A. If you are in F it could easily be harmonic D minor.

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**rpjazzguitar** · 01-10-2017, 04:23 PM

A typical voicing I hear played when the chart says Dm7#5 is x55566. And, you're right, it sounds like it's functioning as something like a Bbmaj7/D.

Of course, that voicing has a G, so it's a sus or 11th, technically. The notes, D G C F Bb, make a big stack of fourths, which makes the tonality ambiguous to my ear.

A is better than B to my ear, but I don't think I'd lean on either one over this chord.

**mr. beaumont** · 01-10-2017, 04:38 PM

The melody over the chord in question is 5, 4, 9, Root, then going to a 6th in the last bar over a 7#11 chord of the same root as the previous bar.

**ragman1** · 01-12-2017, 07:59 PM

Originally Posted by Vladan

I don't know about charts, but if you have Bb in Dm it's likely you are not in C major, but rather in F major, or Bb major instead

I don't think it's really 'in' anything. If you put it into Em for easy reference it goes:

Em - % - Eb - F
A7 - C7 - G - %
Bm - % - C7 - Bm
C7 - Cmb6 (Ab/C) - C7 - %

There's an A7 which would be a secondary dom, a few G's and Bm's, but that's about it. There are five C7's and that might point to a IV7... but who knows?

If we 'un-tritone' some of the chords there's an A and a B, which makes sense. More importantly the C7's become F#7's around the Bm's, which makes even more sense. If we call this mb6 thing an Ab then it becomes D, which also makes sense.

But does that mean it's really in Em? I'm not sure. I think we're trying to rationalise a pretty random sequence! (And it doesn't matter much anyway)

**Vladan** · 01-12-2017, 08:17 PM

Guess you are right, but I did not say the tune was in anything. I commented on Joao's note sequence and his thinking about what scale it could be, not on original post, or particular tune.

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**ragman1** · 01-13-2017, 05:31 AM

Originally Posted by Vladan

I did not say the tune was in anything. I commented on Joao's note sequence and his thinking about what scale it could be, not on original post, or particular tune.

Ah! Apologies

**Vladan** · 01-13-2017, 06:56 AM

Originally Posted by ragman1

Ah! Apologies

Will consider if acceptable. ;-)

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**MarkInLA** · 02-02-2017, 06:13 PM

Someone said "Colleen, what a nice Irish name ". Yes, the name is. But how do you know Colleen, the person, is Irish ? She could be a black Ethiopian Jew..or a Chinese transexual, or a French hetero male, or a Cuban talking cigar...

**MarkInLA** · 02-02-2017, 08:10 PM

Sorry, I deleted my post that was here as I had mistakenly changed Colleen's chord name by adding a 7th which she'd never included. This now greatly affects my following post which I too will redo.....M

**Hep To The Jive** · 02-02-2017, 09:13 PM

Originally Posted by MarkInLA

Oh, BTW, all this philosophizing over a what, Min.7b6 chord !?! ...Maybe some Brazilians call it that...... But it is the first inversion of a BbMaj.9, [3rd, D, in the bass], period. It's either a tonic if in 2 flats, or a subdominant, in 1 flat... Key Sig. of tune has no bearing on it. Ex: If in G major, it would function as a ' key of the moment ' subdominant of F. [Bill Levitt/Berklee]...Use F major scale during. Or, less likely, a Bb major scale....M

Yeah but it was already established a few posts before. (And is correct indeed Gbmaj scale if we are talkin Bbmb6)

Also calm down, no need to be all blue in the face.

**MarkInLA** · 02-03-2017, 07:52 PM

Excuse me but, who's not calm and who's blue in the face ? I'd put a smiling icon at the end, to boot..
Today I stated in my prior post why I redid it, and was going to redo this post too. And So I now state :

The way I see it is: If we move Colleen's chord up a half step from Bb-b6 to B-b6 for better clarity the notes are B D F# G ( IE: B=root, D=3rd, F# =5th, and G= b6), if inverted and re configured to close-voicing of 3rds it becomes a common Gmaj7 ( *in her key GbMaj7)..No ? There is no such chord: X-b6 (outside of Brazil). No ?... And this Gmaj7 is the tonic in G or the sub dominant of either key of D or if it appears in any other key it is a subdominant of the 'key of the moment'. Ex. If number is in Eb and a GMaj7 appears we'd play the notes of key of D (G being sub dom of D).....

Correct or not, this is my final entry in this thread...