My video series on chord changes

[christianm77]

(Basic stuff for a lot of you, but I'm going through it step by step for clarity.)

[NSJ]

So the Cliff Notes version is that a ii-V is a

iim7-iim6. And that same iim6=viim7b5

[edh]

@NSJ, saved me 17mins.

[christianm77]

I'm going to repost this in 'getting started' - now how do I get rid of this one?

Actually I may leave it up. There might be stuff in the later videos that interest more experienced players, but the main function of these videos is to clearly outline a basic course of study. This is basically the approach I use to solo over changes.

Also pacing is always going to be an issue. Some people pick stuff up very quick, others are like 'ii V... what?'

[christianm77]

Another thing is you might intellectually understand the ii-V and VIIm7b5 connections - but how fast are you at actually recognising them in a chart?

[Groyniad]

i think the general point at the beginning about how the actual home sound is not what you play with - but into. that the resolutions to this sound are there but under-done consistently - i think that point is critical.

now when i'm thinking one i'm trying to think V - i or IV - i or bII dom - i (small letter 'i' means not much of I) - and this is true even when i'm half way through a bar of I

great stuff man - thanks

[christianm77]

The point of this concept is partly in maximising what you can do with language (this will be introduced in pt2) - here's a practice exercise.

Using this relationship Dm6=G9=Bm7b5(=Db7alt=Fmaj7(#11))

You can apply every bit of dominant language you have on minor and half diminished. (And altered dominant and lydian major)
You can apply every bit of minor language you have on dominant and half diminished.(And altered dominant and lydian major)
You can apply every bit of altered dominant language you have on dominant, half diminished and minor chords. (And Lydian Major)


Hopefully you can start to see how far reaching this simple idea is. The concept is - not how much stuff do you know, but how many ways can you use the stuff you know?

[christianm77]

This is pretty similar to the T/D thing right, Groynaid? ;-)

[AlsoRan]

i think the general point at the beginning about how the actual home sound is not what you play with - but into. that the resolutions to this sound are there but under-done consistently - i think that point is critical.

now when i'm thinking one i'm trying to think V - i or IV - i or bII dom - i (small letter 'i' means not much of I) - and this is true even when i'm half way through a bar of I

great stuff man - thanks

Groyniad,

George Benson talks about this very topic in his often maligned video, "The Art of Jazz Guitar." In one of the segments, he expounds how important it is to consider how each tone ties in with the "I" or home note. If I am paraphrasing him correctly, he says he is always conscious of how a given note sounds in relation to that I chord or tone.

[Groyniad]

The point of this concept is partly in maximising what you can do with language (this will be introduced in pt2) - here's a practice exercise.

Using this relationship Dm6=G9=Bm7b5(=Db7alt=Fmaj7(#11))

You can apply every bit of dominant language you have on minor and half diminished. (And altered dominant and lydian major)
You can apply every bit of minor language you have on dominant and half diminished.(And altered dominant and lydian major)
You can apply every bit of altered dominant language you have on dominant, half diminished and minor chords. (And Lydian Major)


Hopefully you can start to see how far reaching this simple idea is. The concept is - not how much stuff do you know, but how many ways can you use the stuff you know?

what i love to do is re-hear the same triad-based idea first over say C maj 7 then (my favourite) over Am6 (D7) but F maj 7 # 11 is nice too and so is F# m7b5. i find a lot of these sounds the most rewarding of all - its taken me ages to find them properly.


you just play a c maj 7 sound then your triad-based idea - then e.g. Am6 and the same triad based idea - then F maj 7 # 11 etc.

[Groyniad]

Groyniad,

George Benson talks about this very topic in his often maligned video, "The Art of Jazz Guitar." In one of the segments, he expounds how important it is to consider how each tone ties in with the "I" or home note. If I am paraphrasing him correctly, he says he is always conscious of how a given note sounds in relation to that I chord or tone.

i love that video - i love the bit on 'cantor changes' - the concepts are incredibly important (not wild or way out at all) - and the terminology is just too good. 'we want cantor - we want cantor' etc.

[christianm77]

i love that video - i love the bit on 'cantor changes' - the concepts are incredibly important (not wild or way out at all) - and the terminology is just too good. 'we want cantor - we want cantor' etc.

I'm going to have to watch this video aren't I? It's like when someone is saying lines from a comedy thing you haven't seen and you are just staring at them blankly while they utter apparent non sequiturs.

[christianm77]

Actually I'm starting to think 'ii-V-what?' could be quite a good tag line for video 5

[christianm77]

OK video 1.5, I recorded this yesterday, BTW, clocking in at a merciful 9 minutes.

This is definitely not a beginner's video, although no new information is provided, it focusses on application.

I think this series is as much about outlining my own thoughts on a syllabus of study (that could take years.) The basic concepts are very simple (if you understand the theory of course) but the actual application is the thing.

I suppose the last video a bit like those harmony books where the first few pages is spent explaining what intervals are.... And then suddenly you are in less familiar territory perhaps?

This ties in with the realisation that the real work is done on mastering the basics. Is there any point if doing videos about it? Dunno. Anyway here we are:

[christianm77]

I should probably have mentioned that the Bmaj7(sus2)/G chord contains an F# - which many would object to as a G7 sound.

I rather like these sounds, but would concede that they wouldn't sound great if someone was comping a G7 with an F in the same register and you had the chord stick around for too long...

[geoff23]

Thanks Christian - enjoying these...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[geoffsct]

Yes thanks. I'll be following these. It's one of my many weak areas.

[Philco]

i love that video - i love the bit on 'cantor changes' - the concepts are incredibly important (not wild or way out at all) - and the terminology is just too good. 'we want cantor - we want cantor' etc.

Yeah I love that video and have learned a lot from it.
But I have found that to get the most from it I employ the old..."do as he does not what he says"

[jordanklemons]

OK video 1.5, I recorded this yesterday, BTW, clocking in at a merciful 9 minutes.

This is definitely not a beginner's video, although no new information is provided, it focusses on application.

I think this series is as much about outlining my own thoughts on a syllabus of study (that could take years.) The basic concepts are very simple (if you understand the theory of course) but the actual application is the thing.

I suppose the last video a bit like those harmony books where the first few pages is spent explaining what intervals are.... And then suddenly you are in less familiar territory perhaps?

This ties in with the realisation that the real work is done on mastering the basics. Is there any point if doing videos about it? Dunno. Anyway here we are:

Great video Christian. I'm kind of surprised that my ideas gave you a headache when you tried them, as they're super similar to what you're talking about here... and to Lage and Monder's thing. It's different, sure... but probably has more in common than it has differences.

[christianm77]

Part 3 lands with a sickening thud:

But where's Part 2? Well, surely you didn't expect me to do them in order did you?

[Groyniad]

hey - i watched this - its horrid when you do this sort of thing - and the rest is just silence

we can't leave these threads hanging with super positive and generous contributions dangling on their sad ends

no

its amazing what jordan k. brings to this picture - thinking of the four triads as sounds in their own right (but keeping their different relationship to one and the same home note?) - naming them as if they were all 1 - 3 - 5 rather than in terms of their relations to a tonic note (so we call the triad built on the 3rd of E minor a G maj triad rather than thinking of it as a triad contained in an em7 sound).

what i find totally amazing is that - after practicing generic triad based phrases all over the neck (with the triad voiced on adjacent strings to make sweeping them possible) i am discovering that they 'go' with ENDLESS different chords through the tonality. i mean endlessly.

this is your point here and in other places - and its at the heart of my recently developed picture of how everything works.

obviously given that Emin = G maj = Bmin = C maj 7 # 11 = Db m7b5 = (!!) A7 (or A13)

the triad based phrases that unpack the E min or G maj sound have very different ways of working when used over A13 than they do over C maj 7 # 11 etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

but they DO work - and i just can't keep track of all the colours they generate. i'm not being systematic about any of this (at least not yet) - i'm just trying to become familiar with the way the triad based phrases spread out over the neck and with all the different (chord) sounds that they express or capture - and i'm just trying to follow my ear as best i can.

but obviously - the way that 'the four triads' unfold the harmony of Emin is different than the way they unfold the harmony of G maj and of B min and of C maj7 # 11 and of Db m7b5 and of A13 - but all of them do unfold these sounds - and offer melodic possibilities in doing so.

thanks for this man - great stuff.

[christianm77]

C#m7b5!!!!!!! Unacceptable!!!!! :-)

Seriously, cheers.

[Groyniad]

that note - C# (in G) must be (in some sense) the reason that you start with the relative minor sound rather than the major sound

its the 6th of the relative minor sound (C# is the sixth of E min) and the # 11 (or flat 5 - i genuinely don't know which is correct) of the 1 sound (G maj)

and it means that you can get the 1 maj 7 #11 sound (and the vi minor sixth sound) onto the palette - not just the iv maj 7 # 11 sound. in fact it means that i do not know whether to think of the 1 sound as a #11 sound - or if that is heresy of the worst sort. (help appreciated)

i have to say that i have not learned to use this lovely 'extended' 1 sound very well yet. in fact both # 11 sounds are not my best friends yet. the problem is all me though - they're not doing anything unreasonable at all.

[christianm77]

that note - C# (in G) must be (in some sense) the reason that you start with the relative minor sound rather than the major sound

its the 6th of the relative minor sound (C# is the sixth of E min) and the # 11 (or flat 5 - i genuinely don't know which is correct) of the 1 sound (G maj)

and it means that you can get the 1 maj 7 #11 sound (and the vi minor sixth sound) onto the palette - not just the iv maj 7 # 11 sound. in fact it means that i do not know whether to think of the 1 sound as a #11 sound - or if that is heresy of the worst sort. (help appreciated)

i have to say that i have not learned to use this lovely 'extended' 1 sound very well yet. in fact both # 11 sounds are not my best friends yet. the problem is all me though - they're not doing anything unreasonable at all.

I wouldn't tend to use it for bop, just not really part of that sound world to my ears.

BTW I don't use your equivalences exactly on closer inspection. Is that from Jordan or something?

Emin = G maj = Bmin = C maj 7 # 11 = Db m7b5 = (!!) A7 (or A13)

I don't think that way, I would think:

F#m7b5 = Am7(6) = Cmaj7#11 = D7 = Ab7alt

From A dorian/melodic minor
A C E G (G#) B D F#

Then, the G zone is separate

C#m7b5 = Em7(6) = Gmaj7(#11) = A7 = Eb7alt

From E dorian/melodic minor
E G B D (D#) F# A C#

Notice that within this you can pick out triads. For example the A dorian example:

Am
C
Em
G
Bm

The thing that separates the two zones is the use of C as opposed to C#. This is a big deal for me, because 4-3 is what drives tonal cadences in the major key. C-B in the key of G major.

I'm at present much less interested in exploring superimposed triadic sounds as sounds in their own right than Jordan is. Which isn't to say I don't use some of the obvious triadic superpositions. I use them all the time. I just don't always care what they are called, or what kind of vertical harmony they create. I see that as a distraction from my current goals of developing better rhythmic and melodic freedom through the changes.

I would describe my playing as at present, harmonically quite boring. I'm looking for interest elsewhere.

In other words I see harmonic understanding as a means to an end ATM. The end is to play tunes with the same rhythmic freedom that I would play a modal vamp. These equivalences can go someway towards this. Here I am using them to create a path of least resistance if you like.

On the other hand you could take the same information and turn it around the other way, and come up with harmonic sounds by using the same material in different contexts over chords. This is what I think of as Monder or Lund doing when they take one harmonic structure and apply it in different contexts. Check out my tune Nibiru (:-)) which is very much an exercise in that type of thing.

It's kind of anti-harmony if that makes any sense. I want harmony to be completely background in my playing, or heavily horizontal. Ideally I want my voicings to be conceived melodically too.

It's quite possible I'll do a volte face in the near future. Triads work very well on the guitar, but even then there's different ways you can view it....

[christianm77]

TL;DR you can use this information for divergent approaches.